So, in my sociolinguistics class we're talking about (what else) Language and Power.

[conuly]

And the point was made that foreign students who want to get into an American university usually need about a 500-600 on the TOEFL, while American students who speak English as a second language can't take the TOEFL, they have to take the SAT and get 500+ on the verbal part.

But a 500 on the TOEFL is like a 200 on the verbal part of the SAT.

When foreigners are given some help on the English part of college admittance, this is seen as fair, but when it happens to American immigrants, it's seen as a "double standard".

Of course, it's obvious why this is. Those foreign students are usually better off than the American ones, and their families aren't the dregs of American society - they're not part of American society at all! So we can say "you're smart, even if your English isn't great". But the American ones are usually poor, and we've really got a vested interest in saying "you're poor because you can't do well". If we didn't say that, we'd have to say "you could do better if things were fair" and then we'd have to ask why they're poor still.

At least, that's my view of the situation, which I'm sure is really much more complicated.

Comments

[eofs.livejournal.com]

You could see it like that, but I see it as:

Immigrants are learning the language in an immersive environment, foreign students are learning in a classroom and from television. To have the same language expectation from the two is rather unfair because they're not coming from a level playing field. However I should think that once the foreign students are living in the US any deficiencies will begin to be corrected as they too are learning in the immersive culture.

But that's just me speaking from outside the situation.

[conuly]

Immigrants are learning the language in an immersive environment, foreign students are learning in a classroom and from television. To have the same language expectation from the two is rather unfair because they're not coming from a level playing field.

Except that this puts the English-as-a-second-language students on the same field as native speakers, and if that were the case they'd do comparatively well on the verbal part of the SATs, and they don't.

However I should think that once the foreign students are living in the US any deficiencies will begin to be corrected as they too are learning in the immersive culture.

Not so. After about age 15 or so your ability to learn a new language, even when immersed in it declines. Some people are always good at learning languages, some people are never good at learning languages, but somebody only being immersed in English at college age will NEVER catch up to native speakers.

There is a slight exception to this, apparently people who speak several languages find it easier to learn new ones, even later in life. But I can't prove that, I've just heard it somewhere.