Judging from this fanwriter's specific tics I'd guess she's from Appalachia

[conuly]

The trouble is that her* characters are English.

Now, most people with the needs washed construction have no idea it's regional, and I can see how both "come with" and the plural prounouns who all and what all snuck in there without notice (but not any form of a plural you, so I guess she caught that one herself!) - but I'm a little surprised that nobody ever told her that "drug" is a nonstandard past tense.

(Why don't people with "needs washed" ever recognize that it's a regionalism?)

* Well, you know what I mean. The characters in the fanfic.

Comments

[minoanmiss]

I wonder if she was too proud to have it Britpicked? I have seen quite a few essays from people from Appalachia that are defensive and protective of their speechways.

[conuly]

To the point of miswriting other people?

No, I think it’s just her first fanfic as seen by the authors note. And ngl, it’s a seven book epic and the lack of dialectpicking has not kept me from reading half of it already.

[cimorene]

Lol.

[cimorene]

Brit or American picking is pretty rare nowadays with all the younger fandoms I've looked at in the last five years or so. I'm not sure how much of the cultural shift is carelessness/technical illiteracy (they're writing in the ao3 window, few are comfortable with a word processor) and how much is decaying fandom public spaces leaving many young writers without people to ask to beta read and unwilling to go looking.

[minoanmiss]

Oh if it's her first fanfic she probably doesn't even know she can get a Britpicker. I send her Improving Good Talent Vibes.

[spiralsheep]

To be [washed], or not to be [washed], that is the question:
to say "needs washed"? 'Tis a conjugation
Devoutly to be wished.

[rmc28]

"needs washed" used in the UK would indicate a Scottish speaker (or someone who hangs out with one). I have colleagues from Glasgow, Edinburgh and the Highlands who all use it, and so when speaking with them, sometimes so do I (despite being thoroughly non-Scottish).

[conuly]

Yes, that's hypothesized to be where Pittsburgh specifically and the surrounding area generally got it.

[frandroid]

> they're writing in the ao3 window, few are comfortable with a word processor

!!!

[ethelmay]

Speaking of "snuck in there," I am currently reading a nonfiction book about the Luddites (early 19C England), and the American author uses words like "snuck" that strike me as out of place, but I can't quite get at why. I think I would be fine with him saying "snuck" in a lecture on the subject. I don't know if I am expecting him to be more formal, or less Californian, or what.

"Come with" I think of as German-influenced, or Norwegian (both of which have similar constructions). "Needs washed" is Scots-Irish, it seems, which I didn't expect. (Per the Yale Grammatical Diversity Project.)

[conuly]

I would say it's minimum standards, but I can't even convince Hollywood that NYC doesn't have alleys, so.

[conuly]

I mean, there's gotta be... a subreddit, I'm thinking?

[conuly]

It was shocking to me to find out as an adult that "sneaked" is standard and "snuck" is the newer form.

[cimorene]

Same. But depending how desperate I am, I do sometimes read them anyway. I wouldn't publicly bookmark them, though.

[minoanmiss]

A Discord, I think. Or maybe just put out a call on Tumblr.

[lizvogel]

I just learned this... um, now, actually.

[melannen]

Huh. I don't live in PA but it never occurred to me that "needs washed" is something some people would consider wrong. Like "needs washing" it strikes me as a bit idiosyncratic but it makes perfect sense in terms of standard English grammar to me, and I absolutely would not clock it as a regionalism.

[topaz_eyes]

People will write in the English they're most familiar with. I was lucky that my first beta was from the UK and stamped out my worst regional tendencies. But I don't know if fandom has that same dedication to canon verisimilitude these days with Brit-picking and/or American-picking?

"Needs washed" is not limited to Appalachia in the US though. The heat map in that article looks at the similar construction "My car needs fixed," and it's not just Appalachia that accepts using the construction.

Needs Washed from the Yale Grammatical Diversity Project: English in North America

(Another place where "needs washed" is common is Canada, despite what that article says. You'll hear it in Nova Scotia (especially Cape Breton), rural Southwestern Ontario, and parts of Alberta. Any areas populated by large numbers of Scottish immigrants would likely use it to some degree, especially if those areas were historically rural and/or isolated.)

[redbird]

I didn't grow up with "needs washed," and it doesn't feel "wrong" to me, but I tend to think of it as a regionalism, like New Yorkers saying "bodega" rather than "convenience store."

[conuly]

"Needs washed" is not limited to Appalachia in the US though.

No it's not. However, it's the specific combination of features that makes me think Appalachia in particular. I could ask. Experience has taught me that many people take a nonjudgmental and dispassionate question of "Are you from here?" as an implicit criticism of their speech, which is absurd but I can't fix that. Trying to fix it doesn't help.

[conuly]

Ditto for dived/dove. I do not like that regular form!

[conuly]

Yeah, but it's definitely a nonstandard regionalism.

It honestly fascinates me, because so many nonstandard regionalisms are a minor point of pride for speakers who have them, but people with or adjacent to needs washed just don't even realize. I'm genuinely not sure how they all have this one weird blind spot.

[conuly]

Needs wished?

[melannen]

I'm still struggling with how it's even nonstandard! If you can put a present participle there, why not a past participle??

[spiralsheep]

Lol, yes! I have an outdoorsy acquaintance who says "needs washed" (literally that phrase) a lot and I'm very fond of him so it has positive connotations for me. Also, for the same reasons, "Holy cow!" /Mid-West

[conuly]

Oh, don’t try to apply logic! That will never end well.

[melannen]

Well, I suspect that's why people who have it don't clock it as a regionalism, *not* accepting is the weird one :P

[chasing_silver]

I'm from rural Southwestern Ontario and never heard "needs washed" until I moved to the Midwest USA. Can't speak to the others, but we didn't say "needs washed" and I lived in several different parts of Southwestern Ontario.

[topaz_eyes]

I'm from that area too--it was a common enough usage where I used to live.

[movingfinger]

I see very experienced fanwriters not doing Britpicking these days. It doesn't do the story any favors, and it shows they aren't reading very widely themselves.

[minoanmiss]

that is a pity.

[lizvogel]

TIL that I don't know English as well as I thought, apparently. ;-)

I'm sorry, but "sneaked" and "dived" just sound Wrong.

[conuly]

No argument here!

[silveradept]

That is indeed a regionalism, although I can't stick my noise up in the air about it, since I once used a very regional celebration of my origin place as the inspiration for a story, and got exceedingly lucky that my recipient for the exchange was from the same region (at which point lucky 10,000 about it being very regional.)

Actually tracing language to correct places, aie. That definitely needs the pickers.

[conuly]

I don't judge people for having regionalisms. I mean, we all do! It's part of the beautiful diversity that is language!

But I am continually amazed at how many people have no clue that this particular regionalism is so... well... regional!