Is it just me, or is there a greater-than-average amount of closed-mindedness here?

[conuly]

She homeschools! She doesn't like the idea of tests and homework! She must be stupid!

I love the assumptions:

There's no way to judge how much a student learned unless you give tests and homework. Well, yeah, I guess they could check class participation and classwork - but how could there possibly be enough time??? Because all my classes, which ran on the "tests and homework" idea, were lecture-based, so this class must ALSO be large and lecture based, and there wouldn't be enough time to do classwork. I've never heard of class discussions, or labwork before!

And:

She withdrew her kids over this! She must not want them to learn! This must make her a bible-thumping fundie!

Aside from the obvious WTF prejudice, I have this to say: Of course, you can't learn unless you have homework and tests! This, despite the studies saying that homework and tests can be detrimental to actual learning. Seriously, think back: which did you learn better, the subject you didn't stress out over but instead liked, or the subject which had lots of tests, which you crammed for? Even if you disagree, which is fair, do you *really* think that there's no other way to learn than by lectures, homework, and tests?

Comments

[neurotica0.livejournal.com]

I see you trying to battle the ignorance and prejudice over there, but the audience just isn't listening to you. It's sad really, because I think you have quite a valid point.

[conuly]

Eh, I cite the failure of the traditional school system. It's not their fault.

Actually, strike that. The traditional school system has succeeded in its ultimate goal, which was to indoctrinate them and convince them that they're incapable of learning without lectures, homework, and tests, thus ensuring the survival of the traditional school system and related industries.

[conuly]

What really pisses me off is that I hadn't intended to defend any particular educational model, but they've basically painted me into a corner now.

[firingneurons.livejournal.com]

I don't know, it doesn't say that the woman didn't like the idea of homework and tests, just that she didn't realise they had it.

I don't know that it's particularly stupid, considering the child is homeschooled and we don't know for how long, so she could be unaccustomed to the way most schools do things.

I found the 'stupidest' part to be that the woman (from the post's description) seemed surprised that a course would have homework/tests when she herself is being the teacher. And presumably, she evaluates her kid's work through some sort of testing.

[mizemm.livejournal.com]

The traditional school system has succeeded in its ultimate goal, which was to indoctrinate them and convince them that they're incapable of learning without lectures, homework, and tests

Public schools also teach that there is one right way to do things, and if you try to explore other options, you're told you're stupid. Don't rock the boat, and pretend you agree with what feels wrong. Sick...

[priyatelka.livejournal.com]

I homeschool and I didn't start giving tests until last year. I did this so I would have some sort of "standardized" verification of my childrens' progress should I have any problems with the school board.

However, *I* don't need to test them. As their mother I know them both intimately and can tell when they're "getting" something and when they're not, as their teacher, I have only two students with whom I spend 5+ hours a day with, five days a week, going over everything, answering questions, discussing things with them.

My kids have been back in school since Tuesday and in science we are currently covering human cellular structure. They are 10 and 7 years old. They have never studied cellular structure before. They were discussing it with their father tonight when he returned home from work and my my husband said something about mitochondrion being his favorite parts of the cell. My seven year old daughter turned to him and said "Daddy, it's mitochondria if it's more than one. Mitochondrion is for just one."

This tells me that not only has she absorbed information about the organelles of cells, but that she also understands singular and plural forms of words. In one sentence. No test required.

I read what you wrote at the other page, Connie, thanks for defending us (homeschoolers). And thank you for being open-minded enough to know that not all of us are Bible-thumpers or idiots.

[pyrokinesis.livejournal.com]

*waves* I saw you fighting for the cause in mock_the_stupid and remembered you from the sinfest feed when I actually made icons out of them. Decided to add you to my friends list.

Um. I have nothing relevant to say at the moment, unfortunately. Hi.

[conuly]

I don't know, it doesn't say that the woman didn't like the idea of homework and tests, just that she didn't realise they had it.

At which point she withdrew her students. I think the idea that she doesn't like homework and tests makes sense, don't you?

And presumably, she evaluates her kid's work through some sort of testing.

Why?

[conuly]

Wow, the feed was a LONG time ago. Hi!

[conuly]

I read what you wrote at the other page, Connie, thanks for defending us (homeschoolers). And thank you for being open-minded enough to know that not all of us are Bible-thumpers or idiots.

Eh, no problem. Some people need saving from the stupid people more than most.

[pyrokinesis.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but I remember reading over your journal then and thinking you were really cool. And the opinion's stuck. ;)

[tsukikage85.livejournal.com]

Personally, I need grades and homework to get me to actually read the materials, and I'm horrible with hands-on projects, but I know many people who have succeeded in alternative schools that didn't do the whole Battle Royale-style academics.

[firingneurons.livejournal.com]

At which point she withdrew her students. I think the idea that she doesn't like homework and tests makes sense, don't you?

Okay, good point.

And as for why for the testing. I don't necessarily mean by traditional tests. You can evaluate the work, and progress of a student without a formal test. I guess I meant more evaluate than test. I think I got something different out of this, I saw it as more of an "Oh, you are going to TEST my child?!" kind of thing. It's sort of hard to explain, I guess I saw it as more of an ignorance for 'traditional' schooling, with testing than an issue with how she preferred her child to be taught.

[conuly]

Not sick. Clever. That's the way to survive in this world, to fit in with everybody else. The sad thing is that we like to pretend otherwise, as though individual thinkers are loved or celebrated. *laughs* If they turn out to be useful, they're like trained monkeys, otherwise nobody will be around them at all, and that's the truth.

[conuly]

Yes, you can. That's the point I was trying to make, that schools can exist without tests (in the traditional sense).

[conuly]

We're all individuals :)

Philosophically, I think the whole test-homework mentality is insulting to the students. It's a bit like saying "we don't trust you to do the work, so we're going to force you to do it anyway". I understand that schools need SOME way to evaluate progress, and testing is the easiest way, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

[conuly]

Of course, my view on homework changes depending on the type of homework given. The homework given in public schools tends to be worksheets. Pointless, and insulting. Homework in the form of projects, or reports, or long essays, or research - that's not pointless, that's just being prepared.

[mizemm.livejournal.com]

I didn't quite follow that. Are you saying that individual, unconventional thought is bad? Or was this another of your sardonic, cynical comments, that I'm too literal to grasp?

I'd rather be hated for being an individual thinker, than accepted as a conformist. No good change can happen, without individual thinkers.

[conuly]

It's a depressed comment. Not sardonic.

Individual thought IS good - in a general or moral sense. However, if your desire is to survive, it's not good. People will go out of their way to make you miserable if you're not like them, and especially if you don't think like them.

That's not cynical or sardonic. Just me being depressed. Do I do that often? I'm sorry.

[mizemm.livejournal.com]

People will go out of their way to make you miserable if you're not like them, and especially if you don't think like them.

Agreed. :<

That's not cynical or sardonic. Just me being depressed. Do I do that often? I'm sorry.

*shrugs* I'm depressed a lot too, but I think I keep it to myself more, or maybe just express it differently. That's not a criticism, just an observation.

[conuly]

I meant "am I often less comprehensible than would be desired, like, apparently, right now, sorry again".

[mizemm.livejournal.com]

Oh. No, I usually understand what you say..

[xmorningxrosex.livejournal.com]

agreed! I'm doing my internship, and we have no tests - 2 papers to "prove" that we're learning something (but they're just introspection type papers and little research) and daily journal entries. Both of those are just for the school though, the agency I'm working at only evaluates me by what I'm doing, NOT through assignments or tests or anything like that. It's cool because I really am learning a lot, and I don't have to waste time cramming for tests or anything because I'm actually USING what I'm learning.

[conuly]

How strange. This must not, according to that girl, be "real" learning - because everybody knows that involves homework.

[fjorab-teke.livejournal.com]

The greatest amount of learning I did was indeed with things I LIKED. Usually I liked them enough to study on my own in sheer interest.

Math? Oh Dell's Math Puzzles and Logic Problems! Horses? Forget my college degree...buy me books and magazines and let me loose with a few horses! P.E.? Let me out there (haha my high school mentality at work) with a bunch of guys I have crushes on, playing games I like but probably am no good at but having fun and trying to show off anyway! Mistory and geography? I HATED them in school and struggled horribly. My geography has been improved with interest in world horse breeds and where my internet friends live. I also LOVE backroad driving and studying maps. My interest in history is on ancient world cultures, how they developed, what their lives were most probably like, and how they interacted. Ancient myths with factual bases (Troy, Biblical stories IMO)...fascinating!

Force me to do it, and I'll hate it. Give me something interesting to investigate on my own without obligations, and I soak it up like a sponge.

Scary, how you surface a point that I've known all along with myself but never really questioned or outright expressed.