An open letter to somebody who will remain unnamed:

[conuly]

When you say that the rhetoric of the rightwing fundiegelical crowd is full of bigotry, including but certainly not limited to anti-Semitism, you're not wrong. I also agree with your implied suggestion that all this anti-Semitism is a bad thing.

However, when you then go from that starting point to the conclusion that these people are bad folks because they pay too much attention to the OT and not the NT, and that anybody who does that is hopelessly immoral, I worry that you have totally lost the plot. You should've quit while you were ahead.

If you can't figure out why those two statements don't belong in the same comment together, perhaps you should do some soul-searching. Actually, maybe you should anyway.

Comments

[adrian_turtle]

Atheism has very different implications, depending on what religion the atheist is walking away from. There's a difference between "There is no God and Mary is his mother," and "There is no God and Mohammed is his prophet."

[conuly]

Indeed. And it's not just the religion, but all the cultural trappings.

Of course, some of us were never raised with religion in the first place.

[siderea]

Of course, some of us were never raised with religion in the first place.

With all due respect, as a third generation atheist: no American is raised without religion. Our parents may do what they can to protect us from it, but it's like dining in the non-smoking sections of restaurants back in the day.

This is important, and I'm troubling to mention, because American atheists, including the ones with atheist families, often are deeply unaware of how much Christian ideas they've absorbed by osmosis: ideas about morality, ideas of what a religion even is, ideas about psychology(!). Which leads to things like the original example.

[sovay]

American atheists, including the ones with atheist families, often are deeply unaware of how much Christian ideas they've absorbed by osmosis: ideas about morality, ideas of what a religion even is, ideas about psychology(!).

+1. And the problem extends beyond American atheism: cf. Richard Dawkins. Christian hegemony has a long reach.

[conuly]

Obligatory "Richard Dawkins is awful" comment.

[conuly]

Fair enough.

[mindstalk]

With all due respect, I find that profoundly offensive.

Would you tell an American Jew or Muslim that they were raised with Christian ideas?

[siderea]

Yes, absolutely. I just did.

And while I can't speak to Muslims, as a Jew, I can assure you, the idea that in the US we're soaking from birth in a largely Christian culture is something that's not news and something we quietly discuss amongst ourselves when people like you aren't around to be offended by the idea.

I don't know what your damage is that you get butthurt over even hearing about – not even being directly confronted over – the idea that Christians and Christianity have enormous privilege, in the social justice sense, over non-Christians in the US, but: yeah. That's a thing. And all the rest of us who live here labor under that regime.

So you can step right the fuck off with your entitlement not to hear about it.

[mindstalk]

You didn't say Christianity has privilege. You made a sweeping generalization about other people's lived experiences, contradicting someone's claim about their own life.

>> Of course, some of us were never raised with religion in the first place.

> With all due respect, as a third generation atheist: no American is raised without religion.

That's you saying "With all due respect, you're wrong about your own life."

[conuly]

If you're continuing this discussion because you think siderea is contradicting your life, that's one thing, but please don't drag me back into it. I actually hate when people do that. If I want to argue or defend myself, I'll do it. I really don't want other people to do it for me, ever, for any reason.

[ioplokon]

"There is no God and Mary is his mother"

LMAO as a lapsed-Catholic atheist I can definitely say you're onto something here. I think in some ways those of us who walked away from explicitly religious upbringings are a bit more aware of how influential those viewpoints can be but... it does sneak up on you sometimes, as well! I imagine that is especially true the more aligned your religious upbringing is with the prevailing culture.

[sovay]

Atheism has very different implications, depending on what religion the atheist is walking away from.

Or remaining in, since being a Jewish atheist is very different from being an atheist in opposition to Christianity ("organized religion" so often really meaning "Christianity").