(no subject)

[conuly]

57 Buffalo officers resign from special squad over suspension of two who shoved 75-year-old

If they're going to be like this, they ought to be fired. Or, if that's not a viable option, then they definitely should be encouraged to just quit the PD entirely. "We're resigning from this squad because those guys were just following orders" suggests that you think "just following orders" is a good reason to do a bad thing.

And just a note? These 57 Buffalo officers, and thousands just like them, swear that they're the good guys, that all cops are the good guys except for a few bad guys, but they're the GOOD guys. Well, if they're going to excuse away bad behavior then they're not.

Comments

[lightbird]

Seriously, I'm fine with all of these assholes resigning from the PD, not just the fucking special squad.

And here I thought we'd all agreed 70 years ago that 'just following orders' is not an excuse or a defense.

[shadowkat]

Hi - I just watched the Governor's briefing on this - and what happened was that they "resigned" their commission, which means they were resigned from "emergency duty" - so they aren't active. The Lt. Governor clarified further stating that they basically are at home and can still receive pay.

The reason for this is collective bargaining contract with the police union. They can't just fire them - unfortunately. There has to be a thorough investigation of the conduct, suspension, and they have the right to a union representative. (It's actually the one thing all those cop procedural series on television and film and books gets right - that cops can't be fired under "union contracts" without a thorough internal affairs review. They can however be "relieved" of duty or have their commission resigned.

(I wish they were fired out right too, but they aren't "at will" employees, they are under a union "contract" with collective bargaining agreements in place. The Governor and Police Commissioner and Mayor can't do much more than what they've done under the law.)

[conuly]

We also agreed that chemical warfare is wrong, but somehow it's not wrong when used against non-combatant civilians.

[conuly]

Sheesh.

[lightbird]

Yep. On non-combatant civilians in their own country.

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

If only more cops had taken sick days post bad cops sop/bad things, we might not be here. Because those sick days could have been spent protecting and serving since that's not getting done on the clock as much as it should.

What even is language anymore?

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

Have you read the articles about the (I can't recall his branch) who then became a cop, used the deescalation techniques he learned only to have his Brothers in Blue show and murder the person he'd talked down. Then he was fired for not following SOP, police force style. And there was a CIA officer that apparently figured out a better way to engage, then went home and became a cop in his home town. To get to pay out of his own pocket for the right equipment.

We've got a big disconnect between non-lethal force and harmless.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/6/2/21277438/police-officer-george-floyd-patrick-skinner-interview-militarization This is the former CIA current Savanah Georgia cop.

[conuly]

Yes, I read the New Yorker article about him.

[calimac]

I read the police union guy's defense of the action. He says their orders were to clear the area, so apparently he thinks anything done in pursuit of that is "following orders." He also thinks that leaving an injured guy lying on the ground constitutes clearing the area. And from his words about how there was no age limit to whom they'd clear, he thinks the offense lay solely in that the guy they pushed was old.

[calimac]

They were ordered to clear the area. They weren't ordered to shove people, to knock them down, or to leave them bleeding on the ground. The Nuremberg rules you allude to don't even need to be brought out; even the claim of "just following orders" would be disingenuous even if legitimate.

[shadowkat]

Yep. Pretty much. Blame "police unions" and "collective bargaining" agreements. Our government can't do anything outside of remove them from service.

[shadowkat]

He's getting kicked for that by the NY State Governor and Mayor of Buffalo. That guy isn't going to have much leverage at the next labor negotiation.

[spikethemuffin]

My first thought when I'd heard this was that they'd all up and quit in protest of the treatment of the fellow that "tripped." I am so angry to be wrong.

[silveradept]

Well, if they want to act like members of organized crime, we should probably treat them as such.

(frozen) “Inter arma enim silent lēgēs”

[nodrog]

Some few years ago I saw an article by Someone In The Know who said, “We are preparing for a massive civil war,” and it seems like those preparations are showing. 

In times past the script played out predictably:  An incident would occur, “The Jesse and Al Show” would roll in and make political hay of it, the usual mobs would chant the usual slogans, the police would offer up a sacrifice or two, SNL would make predictably one-sided “humor” at which the carefully vetted studio audience would dutifully laugh, and on Monday everyone would go back to work.

Now - the police are going berserk, the “army of occupation” determined to Win Hearts and Minds (hint: WHAM) and it’s astounding that they have not (yet) simply opened fire on the insurgents protestors as their military background and training demand.

Yes, the Left is making it all worse; that’s what they do always.  But this time there seems no need to bother - the gloves are off, and the rule of Law has become the bludgeon of Force.

This is not going to turn out well.

¡Bienvenidos a Mexico!

[monanotlisa]

Really goes to show the department is rotten -- the whole local institution is. I like your "encouraged to quit" suggestion here.

[cellio]

Yeah, we've heard "just following orders" before.

They have indicated that they will not do their assigned work. Usually this would mean disciplinary action, but their union can probably get away with crap. :-(

[hudebnik]

There's been a lot of discussion of motives at siderea's place. In brief (trying to be as factual and neutral as possible),

1. the city suspended the two cops in question and exposed them to legal liability for their actions on duty;


2. the police union was upset about that and predicted that if the city was going to do things like that, it would go bankrupt defending police officers in court as it has traditionally done;


3. the police union therefore announced that it would no longer pay for legal defense of special-unit police officers in connection with the protests;


4. the rest of the special unit resigned because if they got in trouble for actions on duty, they would have no legal protection at all.

Opinions differ on to what extent the union was actually unable to pay for legal defense, as opposed to throwing a passive-aggressive snit-fit at the thought of officers being held responsible for their own actions.

(frozen) Re: “Inter arma enim silent lēgēs”

[conuly]

I unscreened, but I froze it because if anybody wants to take it up with you about whether or not liberals make things worse (in general - I'm no fan of Sharpton either) I'd rather they take it over to your journal rather than here. Whatever the root cause of these hives is, stress always makes me itchier.