I found out something new yesterday!

[conuly]

Apparently some languages (or at least one language, and that's Welsh) have a separate marker for some singular objects. That is, some nouns have the plural as their default and the singular is a suffix.

Isn't that cool?

Wikipedia compares this to English mass nouns, which reminds me. A while back I was checking up the etymology of asparagus and I found this whole discussion on what the plural of asparagus is. Sadly, I could not join in, because I wanted so much to point out that it doesn't have a plural, it's not a count noun. But that answer raises so many new questions, mostly "Why the heck can't you count asparagus?" It's not like water or air or even rice and sand. It's asparagus, so why can't I go "one asparagus, two asparaguses, three asparagi, four!" like potatoes? Or maybe other people can do that, but I find myself referring exclusively to bites or stalks or bunches of the stuff instead.

And for that matter, why broccoli? I can't have one broccoli, but I can have one head or stalk or bowl of broccoli. I can count cabbages but not broccoli? Something is broken in the English language here, guys!

Comments

[oloriel.livejournal.com]

Funny, now that you mention it - the same goes for German. (Well, we can't even count cabbages, so I guess at least we're a big more consistent... but still.) You'd have to say eine Stange Spargel - zwei Stangen Spargel ("one staff of asparagus - two staffs of asparagus"), or ein Kopf Kohl/Salat/Brokkoli - zwei Köpfe Kohl/Salat/Brokkoli ("one head of cabbage/lettuce/broccoli").

I think the problem with broccoli is that it's an Italian plural word in the first place, so singularising that would be... kind of hard? Don't ask me. (In Italian, a singular form - broccolo - exists, but that's just one stalk of florets: the whole head of broccoli is, well, broccoli. Perhaps that just doesn't come with a singular counter word.)

Sindarin shares that feature with Welsh - but then, of course, Tolkien used Welsh as an inspiration for Sindarin, so that isn't really all that surprising.

[conuly]

We don't generally use "staff" for vegetables in English, the word is more usually "stalk".

I think the problem with broccoli is that it's an Italian plural word in the first place, so singularising that would be... kind of hard? Don't ask me. (In Italian, a singular form - broccolo - exists, but that's just one stalk of florets: the whole head of broccoli is, well, broccoli. Perhaps that just doesn't come with a singular counter word.)

That sorta makes sense, but why don't people in English just say "Broccolis" and get it over with?

[oloriel.livejournal.com]

"Stalk" works as a translation for Stange as well. I just couldn't think of the word while writing the above entry... *shifty eyes*

Who knows? Start it and see if it catches ;)

[queenlyzard.livejournal.com]

I rather like staff-- it sounds very mystical. I think I've also heard "spears" of asparagus.

[conuly]

Oooh, you're right about spears, I'd forgotten that!