Why are there two g's in "suggest"?

[conuly]

Logically speaking, shouldn't that spelling result in the pronunciation "sug jest" instead of "suh jest"? What the heck is that extra g doing there? Twiddling its thumbs? Picking its nose? Doing the hula? Plotting world domination via illogical orthography?

Interestingly, etymonline.com says that it's from the past participle of "suggerere", which looks like somebody hiccuped while typing. Or speaking, the Romans not having keyboards.

Edit: I now have three comments going "But I do say it that way". For two of you, please confirm: That's sug jest, with the g as in girl?

I've never, ever, ever heard it that way, but assuming that this pronunciation didn't spring up because of the spelling (which is why Brits now say the H in "herb") it all makes sense now!

Merriam-Webster includes that pronunciation, but the OED doesn't.

Comments

[redbird]

Trying to teach etymology, a style of spelling that apparently seemed like a good idea at the time, and also gives us (for example) the b in "dumb."

[steorra]

Well, I do pronounce it [səgdʒɛst]...
(Do you know the IPA?)

[conuly]

Yes, but I can't type it.

[steorra]

OK, so I can type it to you without worrying whether you'll be able to read it. Good.

Also, perhaps this would be useful to you for IPA typing? It's an IPA chart where you can click on the chart and the symbols will appear in a text box that you can copy from.

[conuly]

God, I wish people would actually teach etymology if they keep on insisting on using that argument.

But nothing, and I mean nothing, bothers me so much as the s in island. The b in dumb at least has precedent in lamb and climb, where we can just say "mb at the end of a word means m", but the s in island is completely unpredictable and also isn't even based on real etymology to begin with!

/rantrantyrantrant

[conuly]

Oooh, it would be useful! Charts are helpful anyway, because if I ever go "Wait... what was that sound again?" I can look it up!

Thankies!

[steorra]

(I am amused that that last line contains the string "tyrant" :-) )

[steorra]

You're welcome!

[conuly]

Now I'll never be able to not see that. Darn it! Darn you, you darn dirty commenter!

[codeman38]

That's how I pronounce it, too.

[crystalpyramid]

I'm pretty sure I say "suh jest", but "sug jest" sounds totally fine to my ear.

If there were only one g, wouldn't English spelling rules have it pronounced as "soo jest"? Like supine vs. support, sumac vs summation, etc. The doubled consonant lets you have a short vowel.

When I took Latin in high school, they told me the Romans only had a hard "g", not the "j" one. So it wasn't an issue for them, assuming I was taught correctly.

[kerrypolka]

Edit: I now have three comments going "But I do say it that way". For two of you, please confirm: That's sug jest, with the g as in girl?

I say it this way!

[pne]

wouldn't English spelling rules have it pronounced as "soo jest"?

Or "syoo jest", for those of us who don't drop their yods after coronals. Yes, I think so.

It would rhyme with "hugest", I'd say.

[conuly]

If there were only one g, wouldn't English spelling rules have it pronounced as "soo jest"? Like supine vs. support, sumac vs summation, etc. The doubled consonant lets you have a short vowel.

Well, this is one of the more consistent rules about English spelling, I guess. But it's still one that goes out the window on many occasions, frequently with unstressed syllables - look at traveled. One l, but a "short" e.

[kyrielle]

I also say "sug jest" - raised in Oregon, for what it's worth, and that's how I've almost always heard people say it.

[adrian_turtle]

As an adult, I've heard enough people pronouncing it "suh-jest" that I no longer consider it actually WRONG. Not like "li-berry." But I grew up in Michigan, where *everybody* pronounced it "sug-jest." I'm not sure if Bostonians pronounce the first g less strongly than midwesterners, or if the place I live now just has a lot of New Yorkers mixed in.

[siderea]

I pronounce it "sugjest". Raised in coastal New Hampshire, now a Bostonian..

I just threw on Susan Werner's "May I Suggest" to check, and she sings "sugjest". Iowan.

[siderea]

BTW, the ancient Romans did indeed lack the "j", ("sugg-ger-RAIR-reh"). But in most(?) intervening medieval Latins there was a "g or c before an i or e becomes soft" rule, so "suhj-jer-RAIR-eh". Note, my impression is that while "sugg-jer-RAIR-eh", makes logical sense, that's not right because the rule would have applied to both gs.

[dragonwolf]

the s in island is completely unpredictable and also isn't even based on real etymology to begin with!

What about isle and islet?

I'm no etymology expert, so this may be way off, but according to etymology.com, "spelling modified 15c. by association with similar but unrelated isle."

Isle and islet have their origins in French, which is notorious for not pronouncing half of the letters in a given word (to be fair, there are probably rules around French pronunciations, but I don't speak French, so I don't know said rules).

On a kinda-sorta-not really related note, aisle is another one with a silent s (though it does also have its roots in French).

[trialia]

That is an American thing. In British English it has two Ls.

[trialia]

Also, OED doesn't list that pronunciation simply because we (Brits) don't use it. I've never in my life heard anyone pronounce the word with a hard G...

[trialia]

psst... that's because it isn't wrong, just British!

[conuly]

Yes, note the word unrelated.

[dragonwolf]

They might be unrelated, but according to Merriam-Webster, they are synonyms. Therefore, it makes sense in an "it seemed like a good idea at the time" sort of way.

[adrian_turtle]

Now I know it's a regionalism. I moved the 700 miles between Detroit and Boston in stages, going east until I got my feet wet, and that's one of the accent details that shifted a little. (It didn't shift much. I don't pronounce that first g as strongly as I once did, but I still pronounce it. I still hear others pronounce it, though the hard g is more likely to blur into the soft one.) I couldn't tell if the change happened in Ithaca or Troy, or not until I got to the coast.