This makes me sick

[conuly]

Because she valued her unborn child more than her life, her other children went motherless. What sort of thing is that to do to your family, to tell them that somebody else who may not even live is more important than they are, that you love their little brother or sister more than you love them, that your god doesn't value your life enough to keep you with them? And now she's considered a saint. I'm sure this is a great comfort to her children now that they're grown up without her.

It's also nonsense, really. Traditionally, the fetus wasn't considered to have a soul until it moved... it "quickened" and quick in this sense means "live". So because she took an exceedingly strict view of life, she died. And the pope says she gave a "great sacrifice", but she didn't. She's dead. If she's right, she's happy in heaven, and if she's not, she's just dead. Her children and her husband, her friends and family, those are the ones who sacrificed for her.

Comments

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

That bothers me.

That really, fucking bothers me.

And if I needed any more proof to remove myself from the Catholic face, it's that sort of thing.

These are the same people that consider suicide a one way ticket to Hell. Guess what this woman did? COMMIT PASSIVE SUICIDE. She chose it. According to Catholic dogma, she's in Hell. I don't believe that, but... argh.

Women die in childbirth. Why aren't we canonizing them? Why just her?

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

faith, not face

[ril-chan.livejournal.com]

Women die in childbirth. Why aren't we canonizing them? Why just her?
I assume it would have something to do with intent...she knew that she had a very good chance of dying, and took a stand about it, whereas I assume it's not quite the same with most women who die in childbirth (and if I'm assuming wrong, then it's just because this one happened to be Catholic and happened to catch the Catholic Church's attention. ::shrugs:: ).

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

That's exactly why they're doing it, I know.

It's a bloody stupid reason.

[ril-chan.livejournal.com]

Well, I can see both sides of it. On the one hand, I would definitely consider the mother's life to be more important than the baby's--she's already here, she already has a family that loved her, and it would have caused everyone who loved her much more pain to lose her than to lose an unborn child whom none of them had a chance to know.

On the other hand, if I were pregnant (Ly and I are going to adopt, but hypothetically) and my life was in danger, I might have a really, really hard time. I'm one of those that would feel guilty and worthless the rest of my life for it--not because anyone said I shouldn't, but because the baby already would have been like a real, much loved person to me. So if that woman was one of those women who feel that way, then yes, I'd consider it a sacrifice, and a noble one. But if she was just taking a stand against abortion, or going ahead with the pregnancy because of what the Church would think, then no. My opinion of what this woman did would all depend on her motives, but the article didn't say what they were.

And assuming that fourth child lived, I'm sure that he/she is thankful that he/she was given a chance to live. Although he/she probably has complexes about being the reason his/her mother died, especially if anyone else in the family is bitter about it towards him/her.... :/

[nerdinium.livejournal.com]

I was under the impression that in order to become a saint, you had to have at least two documented 'miracles'. I haven't read any mention of those.

The catholic bishops want to deny Kerry communion, but are not considering denying communion to republicans that are pro-choice like Rudolf Giuliani or Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Add this to the pedophile priest scandal, and for the first time, I am coming close to mentally classifying this religion as 'bad'. Considering I don't consider Satanists intrinsically bad, that is saying a lot.

[nerdinium.livejournal.com]

Ok, I should have read the article completely, they do have miracles associated with her. It does seem politically motivated, however.

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

That bothers me.

That really, fucking bothers me.

And if I needed any more proof to remove myself from the Catholic face, it's that sort of thing.

These are the same people that consider suicide a one way ticket to Hell. Guess what this woman did? COMMIT PASSIVE SUICIDE. She chose it. According to Catholic dogma, she's in Hell. I don't believe that, but... argh.

Women die in childbirth. Why aren't we canonizing them? Why just her?

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

faith, not face

[ril-chan.livejournal.com]

Women die in childbirth. Why aren't we canonizing them? Why just her?
I assume it would have something to do with intent...she knew that she had a very good chance of dying, and took a stand about it, whereas I assume it's not quite the same with most women who die in childbirth (and if I'm assuming wrong, then it's just because this one happened to be Catholic and happened to catch the Catholic Church's attention. ::shrugs:: ).

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

That's exactly why they're doing it, I know.

It's a bloody stupid reason.

[ril-chan.livejournal.com]

Well, I can see both sides of it. On the one hand, I would definitely consider the mother's life to be more important than the baby's--she's already here, she already has a family that loved her, and it would have caused everyone who loved her much more pain to lose her than to lose an unborn child whom none of them had a chance to know.

On the other hand, if I were pregnant (Ly and I are going to adopt, but hypothetically) and my life was in danger, I might have a really, really hard time. I'm one of those that would feel guilty and worthless the rest of my life for it--not because anyone said I shouldn't, but because the baby already would have been like a real, much loved person to me. So if that woman was one of those women who feel that way, then yes, I'd consider it a sacrifice, and a noble one. But if she was just taking a stand against abortion, or going ahead with the pregnancy because of what the Church would think, then no. My opinion of what this woman did would all depend on her motives, but the article didn't say what they were.

And assuming that fourth child lived, I'm sure that he/she is thankful that he/she was given a chance to live. Although he/she probably has complexes about being the reason his/her mother died, especially if anyone else in the family is bitter about it towards him/her.... :/

[nerdinium.livejournal.com]

I was under the impression that in order to become a saint, you had to have at least two documented 'miracles'. I haven't read any mention of those.

The catholic bishops want to deny Kerry communion, but are not considering denying communion to republicans that are pro-choice like Rudolf Giuliani or Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Add this to the pedophile priest scandal, and for the first time, I am coming close to mentally classifying this religion as 'bad'. Considering I don't consider Satanists intrinsically bad, that is saying a lot.

[nerdinium.livejournal.com]

Ok, I should have read the article completely, they do have miracles associated with her. It does seem politically motivated, however.