conuly: Picture of a young River Tam. Quote: Independent thought, independent lives, independent dreams (independent)
[personal profile] conuly
I, um, try to keep it to reasonable levels?

Ana, the other day, was very upset by the litter on the way to the library. (I told her I'd scrounge up a plastic bag for the next time we go so she can gather it up.) "Why do people litter? It's all messy because people are stupid and rude and - "

Me: HOLD ON HERE!

Now, I hated to interrupt her, because if she sticks around with me she'll be pretty darn good at this righteous indignation bit. (Heck, she's pretty good at it now!) But I have a few opinions on the subject myself, and while I do think people shouldn't litter I *also* thought it was time for 5 minutes on the subject of social justice, socioeconomics, and how it relates to the placement and emptying of public garbage cans.

I mean, here we are at the intersection of one, two, three, FOUR major streets (and several other minor ones), at a bus stop where no less than six busses stop (in fact it's two bus stops, five feet away from each other, and the same two across the street going the other way), there's a public school RIGHT THERE, there's a lot of stores, there's the public pool and a park - and until you're actually standing at the bus stop there's no garbage can. In fact, as I showed Ana, the bus stop itself has comparatively little litter, although there's some because although it DOES have garbage cans they're not really sufficient for the amount of people passing through.

When there are garbage cans, people use them. When there aren't, they drop things on the ground. No argument that they shouldn't, but rather than yelling at them to carry their soda bottle an extra 6 blocks or bribing them with a quarter, isn't it easier to just put a garbage can where people are bound to be walking anyway? It certainly seems to work better.

Meanwhile, over in Battery Park City they have a garbage can every few feet, they empty them several times a day, and they even have dispensers for plastic bags specifically so dogwalkers who find themselves at a loss can still pick up the poo! The bags are probably compostable too.

BPC is where the rich people live. They can afford things like that. One of the reasons rich people like to live in areas like that is because it's clean. It's clean because people have a place to put their trash, not because rich people are inherently nicer to the environment!

On a semi-related note, Saturday I went out with Deniz and Su while their mother helped fix up a second room in my grandmother's apartment. Deniz carelessly tossed a straw wrapper on the ground RIGHT as I turned around to make sure she was still behind me. She didn't see me - and believe me, this is the sort of moment you dream of. I quickly turned BACK around and, with my back to her, said in my strictest voice "DENIZ. YOU PICK THAT UP RIGHT NOW."

I'm still giggling over it. Her "Wait, what? OH!" was priceless.

Date: 2010-09-23 07:20 am (UTC)
pne: A picture of a plush toy, halfway between a duck and a platypus, with a green body and a yellow bill and feet. (Default)
From: [personal profile] pne
and believe me, this is the sort of moment you dream of.

I'll say! Eyes in the back of your head, and they always thought that was a lie :D

Date: 2010-09-22 07:27 pm (UTC)
ext_12881: DO NOT TAKE (Default)
From: [identity profile] tsukikage85.livejournal.com
You know, that reminds me, when I was in Nagasaki there wasn't any litter to be found, but at the same time I had a hell of a time finding any garbage cans. I think I probably had to carry my stuff for at least six blocks (maybe more - it was a long time ago) before I was able to throw my stuff away, and that may have been when we entered a Starbucks. My point is, though, that it was especially frustrated to be in a city where the social norm is apparently not to litter, but they apparently don't provide any conveniences to uphold that norm. Granted I would have carried my stuff even if litter was common, but yeah... Grr.
One thing that really does piss me off is when people throw their cigarette butts on the ground, especially when there's a cigarette receptacle or tray within 50 feet of them. Some people like being able to sit on the ground, people! The neat thing is, apparently in Japan (there I go again) they have little portable ashtrays available that you can put your ashes and butts into until there's a convenient place to empty it.

Date: 2010-09-22 08:04 pm (UTC)
ext_12881: DO NOT TAKE (Default)
From: [identity profile] tsukikage85.livejournal.com
I had forgotten about gum - yeah, that's just as bad, but not *quite* as prevalent, I don't think.

Date: 2010-09-22 10:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tenou-k.livejournal.com
The thing with Japan is that nobody expects for there to be public trash cans, so people plan for those eventualities.

Date: 2010-09-23 01:53 am (UTC)
ext_12881: DO NOT TAKE (Default)
From: [identity profile] tsukikage85.livejournal.com
Hmm. So, does "plan" mean anything more than "deal with the fact that they have to carry it", or do they, I dunno, carry fewer disposable items with them? Honest question.

Date: 2010-09-23 02:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tenou-k.livejournal.com
Kind of both. Also, it works really well in conjunction with the notion that it's not polite to walk while eating/drinking. You rarely see people move very far away from the convenience store unless they're going to wait a while before they consume something, and that's partly because the trash/recycling at convenience stores is the only place they're going to be able to throw anything away for a while.

Date: 2010-09-23 02:55 am (UTC)
ext_12881: DO NOT TAKE (Default)
From: [identity profile] tsukikage85.livejournal.com
Ah, I had totally forgotten that particular aspect of Japanese culture. I was probably walking around blatantly ignoring it, taking swigs of my tea whenever I felt like it.

Date: 2010-09-23 02:56 am (UTC)
ext_12881: DO NOT TAKE (Default)
From: [identity profile] tsukikage85.livejournal.com
(I have to wonder if that's part of the reason for the trope of the ditzy girl running off to school with bread in her mouth.)

Date: 2010-09-24 05:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] queenlyzard.livejournal.com
Lovely! And glad to hear you're inducting the nieces into critical thinking about social problems.

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