Ah, another article about that woman at the Starbucks

[conuly]

Apparently, asking her if she wants cheese or butter is "fascist" and an Orwellian effort to control her language, and thence her thoughts.

Yes, of course. Making sure your order is correct is EXACTLY like Fascism! While we're on the subject of made-up lingo, let's look up fascism:

1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

Well, THAT's clearly not what she means (we can only hope), so let's try definition 2....

2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

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<a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/17/lynne-rosenthal-enraged-e_n_685067.html">Apparently, asking her if she wants cheese or butter is "fascist" and an Orwellian effort to control her language, and thence her thoughts.</a>

Yes, of course. Making sure your order is correct is EXACTLY like Fascism! While we're on the subject of made-up lingo, let's look up fascism:

1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

Well, THAT's clearly not what she means (we can only hope), so let's try definition 2....

2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality — J. W. Aldridge>

Well, inasmuch as Starbucks rules the world, I guess insisting you be clear on whether you want butter, cream cheese, or nothing at all is "dictatorial", but aren't we crediting them with just a <i>little</i> more power than they actually have? They're Starbucks. They're not the government. I know there's a lot of 'em out there, but they don't take our tax money just yet.

<i>Rosenthal told DNAinfo that Starbucks' use of language was "Orwellian," a reference to George Orwell's depiction of government manipulation of language in the novel "1984."
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"It's all about control," Rosenthal said. "They're trying to control the language and in that way create a different reality. Unless you obey that language, they lose control."</i>

OMG it's a goddamn coffee chain! It's not like one day you ask for a Tall coffee and the next day you've always been at war with Eastasia. Seriously, it's just not <i>that</i> big a deal. Go order your bagel somewhere else (possibly go get a real bagel) or don't, but let's not throw words like "fascist" and "Orwellian" around like they just don't mean anything anymore.

Comments

[feebeeglee.livejournal.com]

It's not like one day you ask for a Tall coffee and the next day you've always been at war with Eastasia.

I snorted.

[conuly]

I hope you weren't drinking coffee at the time!

[lady-angelina.livejournal.com]

See this icon? Yeah, that's what I feel like doing after reading this. Frankly, if the barista thought to ask me something like that BEFORE starting on my order, I'd be grateful! I can't tell you how many times I've had to send things back because they had something in it that I didn't expect to be there (like whipped cream on an iced coffee drink, or mayonnaise on a sandwich where the listed ingredients on the menu specifically did NOT list it but the clerk thought to take creative liberties for no reason) and didn't want and/or couldn't have.

[tsukikage85.livejournal.com]

Isn't the situation that the barista asked if she wanted butter or cheese, she replied "plain", and the barista wouldn't accept that for an answer? Frankly, that would be pretty dictatorial, even if on a very, very small scale.

[conuly]

Well, plain isn't an answer to "butter or cheese". Plain is an answer to "what sort of bagel? We have onions, poppyseed, everything, sesame, and plain".

But no, from the original article she said a "plain multigrain bagel" (which I guess is a multigrain bagel that isn't cinnamon raisin, or onion, or poppyseed, etc. - at least, by the normal rules of things) and when asked "Do you want cheese or butter on that?" she said "A PLAIN MULTIGRAIN BAGEL!"

If I take a minute, I can find literally dozens of entries at customerssuck or at Not Always Right where the customer really wants a bagel with cream cheese or butter, but wasn't listening and then got angry when they got exactly what they yelled for. If you just repeat yourself, the cashier has no way of knowing if you heard the question, or if you didn't and think THEY misheard YOU.

Instead of throwing a tantrum, it would've been so much easier for her to say "No thank you!" or "Nothing please" or "No, just the bagel, thanks" or anything else rather than repeat herself when clearly her original statement wasn't transparent and obvious. (Aside from which, the cashier has to ask these questions. They aren't doing it to annoy you, they're doing it to make sure your order is correct. Suck it up and answer them like a civilized individual.)

Edit: Actually, re-reading the original article, it's worse. It sounds like she just asked for a TOASTED multigrain bagel, didn't say the word plain, and when asked if she wanted butter or cream cheese she refused to answer the question at all.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

I personally don't go to Starbucks because I know exactly what Prof Rosenthal means about the language, and I in fact have used the word "Orwellian" in the same context. I realise that this is a bit extreme. However, I tend to be conscious of the fact that language shapes thought (and vice versa). Control of language is, even in this small and relatively insignificant sense, control of reality.

I don't throw fits about it however. Well, I did once, but only in a personal notebook a bit over two years ago when Starbucks held its Landmark indoctrination "transformation agenda" evening designed to help workers "elevate the Starbucks experience". I assume that if customers find the Experience sufficiently Elevated, they'll be willing to pay elevated prices.

As long as Starbucks remains intolerant of unions, fair trade, and cruelty-free eggs and milk (not that I can stomach their pastries in any case), I will be intolerant towards them. It occurs to me to wonder why Prof. Rosenthal was there in the first place.

[conuly]

If you want to use hyperbole, I actually don't mind, right up until the moment when you start screaming rather than communicating, and then have the nerve to pat yourself on the back for "speaking English".

I'm not going to jump on everybody who makes Starbucks' language choices out to be of greater import than they are, but once you get in the news because you had to be removed from the building after what should have been a NOTHING experience all bets are off.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

It's all a reflection of a larger and more complex problem, and screaming just wastes breath. I just wonder what she was doing in there if she felt that way.

[conuly]

I know! It's NYC. It's not like there's a shortage of other coffee or bagel shops out there.

[ksol1460.livejournal.com]

Indeed, thanks be to God!

[ascian.livejournal.com]

let's not throw words like "fascist" and "Orwellian" around like they just don't mean anything anymore.

Obviously this is a fascist Orwellian attempt to make those words not mean anything any more.

/straightface

Seriously, though. This woman clearly thinks she's some kind of revolutionary because she orders medium coffee instead of 'venti'. That's so par for the course at coffee joints that it's laughable. Like I said in my last reply, I kind of feel bad for her, like Al Gore in South Park; I don't think she's got many friends.

[catnip13.livejournal.com]

I've never had a problem asking for a 14/16/20 ounce drink. They just give me what I ask for.

[blackhanddpants.livejournal.com]

Oh my word. What an idiot. My father has spent his entire life ordering a "small black coffee" in any number of restaurants, and then answering the question "Would you like cream and sugar with that?" with a slightly pained smile and a polite "No, thank you." My husband has spent his entire life ordering a "plain bacon cheeseburger" and then explaining, just to save everybody misunderstandings and trouble, that by "plain" he means that he wants ONLY bacon and cheese, nothing else, on his bacon cheeseburger. Nobody threw a hissy fit, and nobody accused anybody else of fascism, and everybody got what he wanted in the end.

People who throw fits in restaurants because they are asked to clarify their order to busy clerks who take 7,236 orders every day in a noisy environment, many of which vary only in the finest details, and who are liable to be asked to comp anything they don't get absolutely right, should not be allowed out without a guardian. You know, someone who can remind them to mind their manners.