Incidentally, on the subject of "which group of people are misusing the term 'nation'"

[conuly]

That would be the guy who thinks it's the members of the Iroquois Lacrosse team.

As Wikipedia says: A nation is a group of people who share common history, culture, ethnic origin and language, often possessing or seeking its own government.

...

A nation is different from a country in that a country is the land that belongs to a nation, and from a state in that a state is the government of the nation and country.

...

Although "nation" is also commonly used in informal discourse as a synonym for state or country, a nation is not identical to a state. Countries where the social concept of "nation" coincides with the political concept of "state" are called nation states.

I don't know much about the Iroquois Confederacy except that it helped inspire the Founding Fathers (or so I'm told), but... hell, that's what Wikipedia is for! Ah. It says that the Iroquois Confederacy is formed of six nations... which presumably each have a shared history, culture, ethnic origin, and language. And that's what you need for a nation! Government is an optional extra (and incidentally, just to clear that one up, you can have one even if nobody else recognizes it in the world.) When you combine all these nations into a confederacy, that confederacy of nations presumably from that point onward has a shared history and so forth.

So, while I'm still not sure they're making a worthwhile stand here, and I still haven't learned much about the Iroquois, I hope we've all learned a valuable lesson:

Before you tell people they're wrong, stop and make sure you're not the one who's wrong, because if you're wrong you'll just look like a fool.

(I knew there was something about that comment that bugged me, and it wasn't just the condescension! They were just wrong! Oh, I *hate* it when people are wrong.)

Comments

[keeva]

aren't they the folks who, in addition to inventing our system of government, also invented lacrosse?

[conuly]

Sorta, and yes!

How much influence they had on the US government is debated.

[rainbow-goddess.livejournal.com]

They are a nation. They are the Iroquois Nation or, depending on whose terminology you use, the Iroquois First Nation. I live on the traditional land of the Songhees First Nation. The Haida Gwaii Islands are the traditional territory of the Hadia (First) Nation (they have their own passports, too.)

Where I live, the people that others call Indians are called First Nations. The word "nation" is a big part of that. I think "nation" is what used to be called "tribe."

[dandelion.livejournal.com]

But just being a nation doesn't mean it has the authority to issue passports that other countries will honour. Scotland, for example, is a nation, but you have to get a British passport.

[conuly]

Yeah, I know. That's why I said I'm not sure they really have a legal leg to stand on here.

But the point is you can't go "Ha-ha, you're not reaaaaaally a nation!" because if you do, you are WRONG.

[rainbow-goddess.livejournal.com]

I didn't say anything about passports except to say that the Haida Nation has passports as well. I was just responding to conuly's point that they are, in fact, a nation. If I recall correctly, the Haida see their passports as symbolic, but I could be wrong.

However, whether or not the passports are valid, they are a nation.