This is why I've been googling about cursive a lot, actually.

[conuly]

(And I still want to see more examples - charts, I guess - of how script is taught in other countries. Just because.)

One thing I keep seeing is the statement that up until the 30s or so, cursive was what was taught in the first grade - not print. (And of course some schools changed over sooner than that, and some later - or not at all!) Many of them also say that that's how writing is taught in other countries as well, with the possible exception of Great Britain. Any insight here from people who know what they're talking about would be useful :)

If this is true, all of a sudden that scene in To Kill a Mockingbird makes sense!

See, it was weird enough that Scout's father was criticized for "teaching" her to read when he'd done no such thing (she picked it up on her own), but I never understood the bit about how she was taught to write. It seemed strange to me that they taught her to write in script but not print (and that this was referred to as writing but print wasn't), but stranger that this should be a problem.

But now it makes sense, if teaching print first was somewhat novel - the teacher, new to teaching, felt she'd just had her pedagogy insulted. She's got this idea of how you're nowadays supposed to teach reading and writing, and they did this old-fashioned thing that was ditched to make things easier for kids, this being the newish era of look-say reading as well, I suppose, though technically Scout learned that way anyway. (And it had worked, too!)

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Today, as we walked to the library, I noticed some rosemary in another person's yard, and challenged the kids to find "a plant we can eat" in there. (They did!) I also pointed out that person's impatiens.

Evangeline: Why are they called that?
Me: I don't know.
Evangeline: Maybe they don't have patience?

Now, you all saw that coming, but listen. I don't think we've ever expressed patience as having or not having it. We tell them to BE patient, sure, but not to have patience. I would have expected her to say "Maybe because they're not patient" or even "Maybe because they're impatient" instead.

So now I want to gather up im- words and see what she makes of them. This is probably a bad idea.

Comments

[lady-angelina.livejournal.com]

I blocked out how to read cursive ages ago. And like hell do I remember how to write it. XD

[sayga.livejournal.com]

I was taught cursive gradually by age 9, but print first (English school). We started cursive practice but weren't told what it was for, like we'd do rows of cursive fs all in a row as if they were waves on the ocean. And then we'd do rows of fs all joined up in a row, which looked like fancy swirls. I don't remember ever being told what we were doing, but I liked the patterns so I did it, and later when we learned "joined up" as we called it (and the teachers called it that too), we already had practiced our letters for 2-3 years without knowing we'd been practicing. Or maybe I was just dense about that part of it, but still, it was very useful.

[marveen.livejournal.com]

that this was referred to as writing but print wasn't

Yes. "Writing" is cursive. That other thing you do with a pen is printing.

Most people these days don't remember the difference, much as most people will return only a blank look if I ask them to hand me a salad knife. ;)

I should photograph some of my copperplate for you, since I developed some letterforms of my own. (I also invented a cursive-futhark, which is as far as I know unique.)

[conuly]

Well, there's also Italic, which isn't quite cursive, is it?

[marveen.livejournal.com]

...people write italic by hand? I mean, when they're not doing calligraphy? (The named alphabets of calligraphy are an entirely different subject.)

[amygooglegirl.livejournal.com]

I grew up in France and we only learnt cursive. Now I write a mix of print and cursive, but that's because as a teenager I thought it was cool and started writing in print, and I ended up mixing the two to create my own style of handwriting.

This is what we learn in French schools (http://go.pedago.free.fr/cycle2_cp_outilspourecrire/19.jpg).

[conuly]

Yes. In fact, some schools are teaching that instead of traditional cursive.

[oloriel.livejournal.com]

*nods* I don't know exactly until when they taught children cursive first, print later, but it was the way it commonly was done in Germany until the Seventies. My mother was surprised when I went to school and we learned to print first - it had been the other way 'round for her generation. Actually my mother missed school when her class was "finally" taught print due to being hospitalised - though it didn't matter, as she had already learned to read and write print on her own simply by reading "normal"(i.e., not printed for first-graders who supposedly only know cursive) books. Her teacher was rather astonished when she returned to school and could write print without problems despite her absence. (Which makes me wonder how teachers don't realise that they're not the only source of knowledge in children's lives...)

For my generation, first grade meant learning print, second grade meant learning Vereinfachte Ausgangsschrift (http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Vereinfachte_Ausgangsschrift.png&filetimestamp=20071016122745). Ten years earlier it would have been the other way round; and in my mother's time, they actually had a different cursive: Lateinische Ausgangsschrift (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/a/a5/La-ges.jpg). We were introduced to that (as well as Sütterlin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%BCtterlin) as well as (reading) Fraktur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraktur_(script))) in grade 3, but that was only for fun and to show us how writing changed over time. (I did learn to write fluently in Sütterlin at the time, but I've forgotten most of it by now, although I can still read it, albeit slowly).

So that scene in To Kill a Mockingbird never puzzled me much. ;)

(In case Evangeline really wants to know: Impatiens are called that because the ripe seed pods react very "impatiently" to being touched: they explode, scattering seeds everywhere. I got to know them under the name of Kräutlein Rühr-mich-nicht-an ("Don't-you-touch-me-weed"), which, despite being such a mouthful, is apparently a common enough name (although the "official" German term is Springkraut, "springing weed").)

Dunno if it's really a bad idea to see what she does with other im- words. Sounds quite interesting to me. Especially in the case of "important" and the like ;)

[oloriel.livejournal.com]

Randomly butting in to say: I'd love to see the futhark cursive.

[labellementeuse.livejournal.com]

I hate to bug you, but there's been a poster in book_icons who's posted non-book-related icons a couple of times over the past few days. I and someone else have tried to engage with them about the community rules but they've been unresponsive.

[conuly]

Not bothering - I don't know how I didn't see it! Bug me earlier next time. Or I should just add you as maintainer...

[conuly]

(In case Evangeline really wants to know: Impatiens are called that because the ripe seed pods react very "impatiently" to being touched: they explode, scattering seeds everywhere. I got to know them under the name of Kräutlein Rühr-mich-nicht-an ("Don't-you-touch-me-weed"), which, despite being such a mouthful, is apparently a common enough name (although the "official" German term is Springkraut, "springing weed").)

I don't know why I never replied to this, I certainly meant to! Thanks!

As a kid, I called them the popping plant, I didn't know their real name.