So, Ana said something interesting today, and I'm trying to work out what was going on

[conuly]

She was thinking about climbing up on a wall. Above the wall is a chain-link fence. Part of the fence was bent and pushing out onto the top of the wall, which would make it difficult to walk on that section of wall.

To explain why she wasn't climbing up there, she said "I can't, because of that's falling down" (emphasis mine).

Now - what does "that's" mean? Is it an accusative (can I say that in English? You know, most of what I know about grammar, which is already precious little, is in Latin... and a lot of that is wrong, WHICH IS WHY I AM CONFUSING ALL MY LITTLE DECLINING WORDS), like she'd say "because of him falling down"? (This seems most likely) Is it trying to be a possessive, is "falling down" some sort of quality you can own? (Probably not, but who knows?) Is it a mistake, one that everybody makes, where she was trying to run with "because of that" and "because that is" at the same time? (She didn't hesitate or stutter, so that seems slightly less likely.) Does she just not understand the rules governing "of"? (Doubtful - I'd've noticed before, wouldn't I?)

I've been thinking about this all day now, and I don't know any way to find out!

Comments

[velvetchamber.livejournal.com]

I would say that "Because of his falling down" is a better grammatical interpretation of what she said. And I'd say what she said sounds like it is quite correct within the collective grammar of the Germanic languages I am familiar with (Icelandic, Swedish, Norwegian, Danish, Faeroese, German and English). In Icelandic her sentence would be "Vegna falls þessa". Congratulations to your nice for bring back some proper grammar to the English language!

[wakasplat.livejournal.com]

It sounded to me like "Because of that thing's falling-downness."

[feebeeglee.livejournal.com]

I agree with the other commenters.

[brownkitty.livejournal.com]

Does she understand that "because" doesn't always have to be followed by "of"?

[conuly]

I don't know!

[brownkitty.livejournal.com]

That's the kind of linguistic subtlety that I would expect her to have made a mistake on. Not that she's stupid, or that you're a bad teacher or example: just an uncommon situation that hadn't come up yet.

[conuly]

I hope I'm not teaching her English, I'd kinda expected she was just absorbing it from the ether, as it were.

[caprinus.livejournal.com]

"I can't, because of the fence's falling down" seems to me an arguably grammatical construction*, with "that" then substituted for "the fence" -- which unexpectedly breaks it. It's still a reasonable guess since other personal deixis would work -- "I can't, because of its falling down", "I can't, because of his falling down".

That's my guess, anyway. Needs moar data! Since the -s morpheme can stand for so many damned things in English, you'd really need some more examples of this construction to see if there was a rule being applied, and if so, what sort.

[conuly]

That's my guess, anyway. Needs moar data! Since the -s morpheme can stand for so many damned things in English, you'd really need some more examples of this construction to see if there was a rule being applied, and if so, what sort.

The trouble is getting it. What am I going to do, stand in front of her and demand she describe various things? She doesn't really go for that...!

[caprinus.livejournal.com]

Oh, I quite sympathise! Getting kids to repeat interesting patterns without ruining the spontaneity... *has nightmares of fieldwork in his Child Language Acquisition coursework*

Yes, basically, I have nothing to offer beyond my guess from the one sample. Unless you get lucky and catch more of the same (and soon, before her grammar evolves), it's impossible to tell what's really going on.

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

I think it's akin to someone saying "Because of his falling down," which only works in a few contexts, but which I wouldn't be surprised if she's heard. Though she's only a "which" away from a stuffy "That which is falling down." :-D

[velvetchamber.livejournal.com]

I would say that "Because of his falling down" is a better grammatical interpretation of what she said. And I'd say what she said sounds like it is quite correct within the collective grammar of the Germanic languages I am familiar with (Icelandic, Swedish, Norwegian, Danish, Faeroese, German and English). In Icelandic her sentence would be "Vegna falls þessa". Congratulations to your nice for bring back some proper grammar to the English language!

[wakasplat.livejournal.com]

It sounded to me like "Because of that thing's falling-downness."

[feebeeglee.livejournal.com]

I agree with the other commenters.

[brownkitty.livejournal.com]

Does she understand that "because" doesn't always have to be followed by "of"?

[conuly]

I don't know!

[brownkitty.livejournal.com]

That's the kind of linguistic subtlety that I would expect her to have made a mistake on. Not that she's stupid, or that you're a bad teacher or example: just an uncommon situation that hadn't come up yet.

[conuly]

I hope I'm not teaching her English, I'd kinda expected she was just absorbing it from the ether, as it were.

[caprinus.livejournal.com]

"I can't, because of the fence's falling down" seems to me an arguably grammatical construction*, with "that" then substituted for "the fence" -- which unexpectedly breaks it. It's still a reasonable guess since other personal deixis would work -- "I can't, because of its falling down", "I can't, because of his falling down".

That's my guess, anyway. Needs moar data! Since the -s morpheme can stand for so many damned things in English, you'd really need some more examples of this construction to see if there was a rule being applied, and if so, what sort.

[conuly]

That's my guess, anyway. Needs moar data! Since the -s morpheme can stand for so many damned things in English, you'd really need some more examples of this construction to see if there was a rule being applied, and if so, what sort.

The trouble is getting it. What am I going to do, stand in front of her and demand she describe various things? She doesn't really go for that...!

[caprinus.livejournal.com]

Oh, I quite sympathise! Getting kids to repeat interesting patterns without ruining the spontaneity... *has nightmares of fieldwork in his Child Language Acquisition coursework*

Yes, basically, I have nothing to offer beyond my guess from the one sample. Unless you get lucky and catch more of the same (and soon, before her grammar evolves), it's impossible to tell what's really going on.

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

I think it's akin to someone saying "Because of his falling down," which only works in a few contexts, but which I wouldn't be surprised if she's heard. Though she's only a "which" away from a stuffy "That which is falling down." :-D