You guys see this yet?

[conuly]

Mother seeks girl's hysterectomy (didn't we do this last year?)

And here's another entry on the subject.

Another article, "Keep my daughter a child". They're not even trying to be subtle with that one. The bit on her not being able to ride horses anymore bothers me - Google is suggesting that ramps to help people in wheelchairs mount horses aren't even all that expensive.

Comments

[bookgirlwa.livejournal.com]

Ah, jeez - on clicking on the Feminist LJ link I've just reminded myself *why* I no longer read that community. `CP sufferers' WTF!!!!

And why *shouldn't* we judge what parents do - sometimes parents do terrible things to their kids, even when they say how much they love them!!! Parents can have the same set of ablist assumptions and prejudice as the rest of society.

And I really really really do know what I'm talking about as far as that goes. My parents treated me like shit, and never had my best interests at heart a day in their lives, meanwhile getting all kinds of credit from the world for having a disabled child.

('scuse the rant - the Feminist comments just pissed me off, serves me right for clicking)

[latenightparty.livejournal.com]

Yeah. There are some truly horrible parents out there--mean, selfish, or just plain idiotic. So I do not agree that "parents know what's best for their children." Because often, they don't.

[conuly]

And why *shouldn't* we judge what parents do - sometimes parents do terrible things to their kids, even when they say how much they love them!!! Parents can have the same set of ablist assumptions and prejudice as the rest of society.

Some people want to believe that parents always know what's best for their kids. I keep wondering what they think is the problem when mom and dad disagree, but I never bother to ask them. As far as I'm concerned, the best you can hope for is that the parents want the best for their kids - and some kids don't even get that.

[adiva_calandia]

:\ I think people suggesting that the parents are suggesting a hysterectomy to prevent rape are off the mark -- of course that's not going to be a deterrent, and that's clearly not the parents' justification.

Now, preventing pregnancy from a rape is a reasonable concern, but this is -- ludicrous. Why not try something like the Pill before going to lengths like invasive surgery?

[latenightparty.livejournal.com]

Oh, but they don't want the inconvenience of cleaning up her period blood every month, so they're going to put her through a complicated surgery! (As if they don't already clean up after her...)

[conuly]

Well, her mother apparently believes that medicine could totally mess with her kid's system. Which is a belief I can get behind - but the solution isn't to just assume surgery is the answer!

[collectonian.livejournal.com]

In general, I tend to say the mother is going overboard when there are other options, but I'm no expert and don't have enough info to fully condemn her for it.

For me, the much more interesting (and somewhat disturbing) sentence was this one: "If approved, it will be the first time in Britain a hysterectomy is carried out without it being medically needed."

This seems to indicate that in Britain, if a woman wants to have a hysterectomy because she doesn't want children or periods (i.e. basically choses to have menopause early), she wouldn't be allowed? In the US, doctors are reticent about doing it for women under 30, but otherwise, it isn't blocked or banned. Am I misunderstanding that statement, or would a woman really have to get court approval to have a voluntary hysterectomy? *scratching head*

[tsukikage85.livejournal.com]

I thought they were saying that the mastectomy was to prevent rape...

[sayga.livejournal.com]

on the last article you posted: what's all that talk about being undignified? i bet the mom is one of those people who says she never farts, because someone imagining her farting would be horrific for her. how can she take care of her daughter when she feels so much shame over her daughter's body?! it's just a body! it's not undignified to be someone who needs help caring for themselves, whether you're injured, a baby, someone with a disability, whatever. ugh. i just don't understand such body shame.

[latenightparty.livejournal.com]

Trust me, the mastectomy is not going to prevent rape. Most girls with disabilities are sexually abused, as are many non-disabled girls... and much of this abuse happens before they get breasts.

[latenightparty.livejournal.com]

I think the mother's body shame is directly contributing to her determination to keep her daughter from having sex characteristics.

[adiva_calandia]

If I'm reading everything correctly, it sounds like Ashley X's parents gave her a mastectomy to prevent the possibility of breast cancer, and to avoid the discomfort of, well, having breasts.

I think commenters were suggesting that the mastectomy was also intended to prevent rape, though, you're right. I might've been misreading it as both hysterectomy and mastectomy were to prevent rape.

[adiva_calandia]

*nodnod* Yeah, okay. I can understand that.

But still. Argh. I mean . . . anesthesia and painkillers aren't going to mess with her system, too?

[adiva_calandia]

Seriously. And you know, I'm not crazy about the inconvenience of cleaning up my period blood every month, either, but I'm not in a hurry to schedule a major surgery to deal with it.

Argh. People hurt my head.

[wakasplat.livejournal.com]

What disturbs me is a tendency when it comes to injustice against disabled people, to say something like, "I'm not an expert," or "I don't know that person's case," or "I'm not sure of the complexities of the situation."

Not sure what's up with that. Not picking on you specifically either, I've seen it all over today. I see it all the time when someone does something bad to a disabled person, the idea that ordinary people can't condemn these injustices without becoming experts... or something like that.

[conuly]

What *is* undignified, if you ask me, is having your mother go and tell people she doesn't want you to grow up.

[collectonian.livejournal.com]

Can't answer for anyone else, but I say it because I honestly know very little about cerebral palsy or how it affects the people who have it. I also believe medical decisions of any kind should be done on a case-by-case basis because every case is unique, hence my not really knowing enough about this case to say for sure that the mother is just being insane or stupid or a demon or whatever anyone else wants to call her.

Without enough information, I can't say that it is an injustice. I don't call something an injustice solely because others consider it so, but based on what information I can study and then making my own decision. If I don't have enough info, I won't call it an injustice and stay neutral.

[dandelion.livejournal.com]

It's possibly because since a hysterectomy would be free on the NHS, if it's not medically necessary it won't be granted. There are other ways to stop having periods or children. (Also, I think you don't mean "reticent" ;)

[collectonian.livejournal.com]

Ahh...I forget about that NHS thing.

(and yes, I meant reticent as in many US doctors are reluctant and unwilling to do a hysterectomy or other permanent birth control method on women under 30 because they figure we'll "change our minds" when we get older.

[dandelion.livejournal.com]

Connie's probably going to jump on me for this blatant display of prescriptivism, but reticent's supposed to mean "reluctant to speak" rather than simply "reluctant".

The NHS does authorise other permanent birth control methods, just not hysterectomies simply on the grounds that you don't want to get pregnant seeing as it's fairly drastic surgery. Hysterectomies also appear to be a lot more common in America than here - I think the statistic I just saw said 1 in 5 women by the age of 65 here, and 1 in 3 by the age of 60 in the US.

[conuly]

In this case, what you're prescribing is something to aid communication, rather than something to judge others by or that doesn't add clarity at all, so I won't worry about it. Much.

[leora.livejournal.com]

How big were her breasts likely to be? I'm a 34D and I need to lie down a lot because I'm chronically and fairly severely ill. My breasts don't cause my discomfort. Bras can make it harder for me to breathe, any constriction around the chest can be an issue for me, but if I simply don't wear anything tight, they don't give me any problems. I know some people do have problems with large breasts, but I think it's really the minority of women, and you need fairly large breasts before they're an issue ~when lying down~.

What bothers me is the justifications given. Such as the article constantly stressing the indignity and inability to keep it discreet. That's not for the child; that's for the parents. The child would have no reason to believe it is undignified unless the parents communicate that. If all you've ever known your whole life is having someone else change your diapers, then why would you think it's undignified to have someone do that for you? I remember my past pretty well, and I remember before I was toilet trained. I certainly didn't think it was undignified. In fact, my biggest stumbling block to toilet training was that I didn't want to do that for myself as it seemed icky and I had parents willing to do it for me. (On a side note, I toilet trained somewhere around age 2, my views have shifted a bit since then :)). And why would you think a period is embarrassing or something you need to keep discreet if people didn't tell you it was?

They keep emphasizing this child's limited understanding, and then they talk about discretion and dignity... it just doesn't add up.

[sayga.livejournal.com]

good point. i think you're absolutely right.

[fjorab-teke.livejournal.com]

I'm completely divided about this. I actually WISH I had gotten a hysterectomy at about age 16. It would have solved all sorts of problems. But unfortunately, in people it tends to bring up problems of its own. I wish I could justify one now, because I'm reaching an age where the pill is going to become increasingly dangerous to take. What then?

If the young lady is seriously at a large risk for excruciating and heavy periods and WON'T understand the pain and won't be able to moderate the pain or regulate the periods, then I see the point. If there's no way she could safely have a child, then that's an added bonus because NO other method is 100% preventive of a pregnancy in the case of intercourse (consentual or otherwise). Tubal sterilization doesn't always work, and it won't prevent the periods. If it weren't for the complications that humans tend to have with a hysterectomy (unlike cats and dogs) I would be more in favor of it in this case (for someone who won't be able to consent to it but may well be helped by it) and for myself (who CAN consent and wants it but can't afford it or its side-effects).

Ugh, what a mess. :-(

[lizziey.livejournal.com]

Hey, I managed to get a tubal, no questions asked, at 23 (granted, I have three kids already...). However, a friend of mine, 27 years old, also an Army wife...needs a hysterectomy before she can get her prolapsed bladder fixed. Reason being, if she gets pregnant after the surgery, it could (and probably would) screw everything up.

Stupid doctors won't do it, claiming she may want anothr child down the road.

The worst part is we are seen at the same clinic. :( She just has a craptastic doctor.