conuly

I think this is exactly why my parents reinforced the use of "I think" and "I believe".

I'm glad you've said this. It's struck me this way as well.

From:

Your family were very wise, Spacemuffin.

I really don't like "I think" and "I believe" too much in writing. It is okay in speech, which is generally less wired for rational argument unless you're my grandfather.

Sometimes talking about feelings CAN be passive aggressive. I know it in myself and HAVE used it this way. I will try not to in future. It possibly is a natural and normal thing to do when somboedy is insecure, but that doesn't make it right.

Adelaide

From:

conuly

I really don't like "I think" and "I believe" too much in writing.

In writing, statements like that weaken the argument. In scientific writing, nobody cares what you think, they care what the evidence shows. In other forms of writing, you should know how to explain yourself clearly enough that the reader doesn't need a guide to your thoughts.

That's how I always learned it, anyway. There's a place for I statements, and formal writing generally isn't it.

From:

That's true. Although were you thinking of formal writing or something more like a journal? "I think" and "I believe" can still be useful in informal writing, although it does seem to depend on the situation.

I actually find formal writing easier than most informal writing simply because I don't have to be bogged down with "thinking", "believing", or ... "feeling".

From:

conuly

I specifically mentioned formal writing, near the end.

They have a good place in informal writing, though I think some of us (me!) use them too much there.

I actually find formal writing easier than most informal writing simply because I don't have to be bogged down with "thinking", "believing", or ... "feeling".

*nods*

On the other hand, it's a lot easier to think something than to prove it.

From:

I specifically mentioned formal writing, near the end.

You know, you said it, I read it, and I still missed it. It must be time for bed.

It is MUCH easier to think something than to prove it, that's for sure. I can think a million things I can never prove.

From:

I wonder if you and Conuly (this is informal writing, people!) have read 2004/05's Edge "Things I believe which I cannot prove ..."

http://www.edge.org/q2005/q05_print.html

It was at the start of the year 2005 and it was pretty cool. It inspired me to write some things in that vein.

The current Edge has something about the thirtieth anniversary of The Selfish Gene. Do you think that's what's at work here?

Adelaide

From:

I feel attacked by this post! T___T

From:

conuly

No, you I love. It's Certain Other People I don't like. In this case, Certain Other People whom I don't know and who don't know me.

From:

*G* Sorry, forgot to close my sarcasm tags.

People are silly, aren't they?

From:

wakasplat.livejournal.com

I've just recently had a conversation with someone whose "I feel" mode seemed to be more important than right and wrong, than fact, or than anything else. Some people seem to worship feelings.

(I understand the need for discussion of feelings in some contexts, but they seem to pop in everywhere. I know a woman who used to be a social worker, which is I'm sure where she got this, and she constructs all conversation in "When you... I feel..." format. Drives me up the wall. Especially when she'll do this over life and death issues and claim that this is "empowerment" when her "I'm only speaking for myself" mode can screw over everyone but her who's affected by it, and then ends up screwing her over too because of how passive it makes her position.)

From:

stagemanager.livejournal.com

I'm sorry. (And I'm not being passive-aggressive with this, I'm truly sorry.) 'Nuff said.

From:

conuly

Well, it's not you either, if you're apologising for that. If you're just generally saying "sorry", then I appreciate the feeling. Feeling sorry is something a lot of people never manage.

From:

conuly

In this case, I meant specifically when you tell somebody "You did wrong" and they don't even address the issue, they just say "I feel bad you said that, that was mean for you to say!!!!"

From:

I think this is exactly why my parents reinforced the use of "I think" and "I believe".

I'm glad you've said this. It's struck me this way as well.

From:

Your family were very wise, Spacemuffin.

I really don't like "I think" and "I believe" too much in writing. It is okay in speech, which is generally less wired for rational argument unless you're my grandfather.

Sometimes talking about feelings CAN be passive aggressive. I know it in myself and HAVE used it this way. I will try not to in future. It possibly is a natural and normal thing to do when somboedy is insecure, but that doesn't make it right.

Adelaide

From:

conuly

I really don't like "I think" and "I believe" too much in writing.

In writing, statements like that weaken the argument. In scientific writing, nobody cares what you think, they care what the evidence shows. In other forms of writing, you should know how to explain yourself clearly enough that the reader doesn't need a guide to your thoughts.

That's how I always learned it, anyway. There's a place for I statements, and formal writing generally isn't it.

From:

That's true. Although were you thinking of formal writing or something more like a journal? "I think" and "I believe" can still be useful in informal writing, although it does seem to depend on the situation.

I actually find formal writing easier than most informal writing simply because I don't have to be bogged down with "thinking", "believing", or ... "feeling".

From:

conuly

I specifically mentioned formal writing, near the end.

They have a good place in informal writing, though I think some of us (me!) use them too much there.

I actually find formal writing easier than most informal writing simply because I don't have to be bogged down with "thinking", "believing", or ... "feeling".

*nods*

On the other hand, it's a lot easier to think something than to prove it.

From:

I specifically mentioned formal writing, near the end.

You know, you said it, I read it, and I still missed it. It must be time for bed.

It is MUCH easier to think something than to prove it, that's for sure. I can think a million things I can never prove.

From:

I wonder if you and Conuly (this is informal writing, people!) have read 2004/05's Edge "Things I believe which I cannot prove ..."

http://www.edge.org/q2005/q05_print.html

It was at the start of the year 2005 and it was pretty cool. It inspired me to write some things in that vein.

The current Edge has something about the thirtieth anniversary of The Selfish Gene. Do you think that's what's at work here?

Adelaide

From:

I feel attacked by this post! T___T

From:

conuly

No, you I love. It's Certain Other People I don't like. In this case, Certain Other People whom I don't know and who don't know me.

From: