Why do people do this?

[conuly]

Not that long ago, I had an epiphany. It struck me that Ana is going to be *three* in *May*. That's coming fast now!

And, with that said, and me anticipating another year (at least) of full-time babysitting, and then some, it hit me: I don't want to spend my life playing fetch-and-carry for this child. Ana can fill up her own glass of water in the bathroom sink. She's good at it, doesn't spill.

So often, when she asks me for a cup of water, I hand her her scooby cup and tell her to have at it. Oh, and to say please. She doesn't say please nearly as consistently as I'd like.

With the success of this scheme, I moved it into other areas. When we go to the BCM, and she wants to play in the water area, she can: get a smock off the hook, put the smock on (about half the time, the other half of the time she can ask me for help and I'll help her), push up her sleeves (I roll them properly after she's pushed them up a bit), fasten her smock, take her smock off when she's done, and (about half the time) put the smock back up on the hook.

Of course, she doesn't do this on her own yet - I remind her "Ana, put your smock on first. Right, did you remember to roll up your sleeves? Do you need help?" and on.

I've got no complaints from the Anabanana. Here's what gets me. A lot of times, after I tell Ana she needs a smock on before she goes in the water, and to "get a smock and put it on" (those exact words), somebody will, before Ana even has a chance to *try* to put the smock on, take a smock down and put it on her for her.

Why the hell do they do that? Do they think I'm going to tell this kid to do something she can't do? Because I'm not. It's silly, and a waste of time. Do they think it's helpful to teach this kid that random strangers will do for her, when she's perfectly capable of doing things herself? Do they really think I'm just being lazy? (Well, I mean, I am, but I have a hifalutin' excuse of "it's good for her" to back me up.)

Because it's really starting to annoy me. Guys. Ana? She's nearly three. She can do a lot of things all by herself, and I assure you, it doesn't do anybody any good to act otherwise.

Not that you are the ones doing this, but I have no idea how to call these other people out on it. What do I say? "Stop helping my niece RIGHT NOW, or you get a time-out!"? Somehow, I don't think that'd go over well....

(Speaking of time-outs, I'm experimenting, with Jenn's approval, with giving Ana informal "until you calm down" time-outs. I think it's working - she calms down a lot faster, and for longer. This can only be good. But I'm really doing it because I'm too lazy to watch a clock.)

Edit: This isn't a new thing. It's related to the people who act stunned that the kid can throw out her own garbage when told to (or even of her own volition, because she knows what garbage is and where it goes); that she can ask for a tissue, blow her nose, and throw it out *all by herself*; that she can unzip her jacket and take it off (she usually unzips it just most of the way and steps out of it, but I don't care); that she can hold onto a subway pole (okay, maybe this one is a little more unusual).

I don't think Ana is all that far ahead of other children her age in these abilities. I think that there's a lot of people, including people who ought to know better, who just underestimate children. And that's a sad thing.

Comments

[leora.livejournal.com]

Maybe say, "Thank you for trying to help, but please don't assist her unless she asks for help." If they say something in response you can continue with, "We expect her to do what she can for herself and ask for help when she can't. We want her to learn when and how to ask for help." That should shut most people up.

And I think part of it is because people get tired of kids being asked to do unreasonable things and sometimes punished for not accomplishing them. I still wish I knew what to say to confront what I consider to be child abuse. Like some poor little kid who was asked to wait in the corner of the bathroom. This was reasonable. What wasn't was that the kid got yelled at for... I forget, something trivial. Like sitting down while waiting. Or fidgeting a little while waiting. The child wasn't disruptive, did not leave the area, and did nothing to harm anyone else. Yet the kid got yelled at. So, maybe some people are just hoping to head off some poor kid getting yelled at for not being able to fully and properly put on a smock at age 3. Because some people are stupid enough and cruel enough to do that.

Other than that - I have no idea. Although I will randomly assist people sometimes. Maybe they don't even think about it and it's just part of randomly helping out when it's trivial to do so.

You can always tell Ana, some people will sometimes randomly help you. And that's fine. But you shouldn't rely on it, and it's still good to learn how to do these things yourself. And then you can do it for yourself and sometimes help others.

[conuly]

I can understand being frustrated that your kid sat down in the bathroom. Because it's a *bathroom*, most people are convinced that the floors are, by that fact alone, absolutely the filthiest thing in the world. It may be okay to sit on *another* floor, but *that* floor is always bad to sit on, no matter what.

(I've never seen any evidence that a reasonably clean bathroom is going to have filthy floors in an area far away from the stalls, but I also don't see evidence that every spot of pavement is covered with broken glass, so....)

[leora.livejournal.com]

I hadn't thought of that. Although I'm fairly sure... and this is fuzzy and the specific incident doesn't matter, that there was no direct sitting. I meant squatting, sitting, where you sit on your calves kind of thing.

But the point is, some people just yell at kids way too easily, and if you've been exposed to much of this, you'll want to prevent it.

[conuly]

Oh. Yeah, in that case, it sounds like a complete overreaction.

Mind, I can understand that *too*, but I do my utmost best to keep my overreactions safe in sound in my little head. It just makes things worse to express them.

[conuly]

Not to say that it's all right to just blow up at the kid, but I can just see the thoughts that'd lead to that.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

Just tell them, 'oh, she can do it herself' in a cheery manner, like you are quite proud of her, or just tell them 'she likes to do it herself, now that she can', or something like that.

[conuly]

I think this is better than leora's suggestion, simply because I know these people are trying to be nice, so I don't want to upset them. Well, not unless they keep on doing it, I mean.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

And you know what? If they are the nicey nicey sort (which they probably are, since they're trying to help her), then they will probably gush and encourage her more, which could be a good thing. May even inspire other kids if they see she is doing it and getting praised. Heck, I'd love to hear a story from you soon that some kid will say "Let ME try, I can do it MYSELF". Heh.

[conuly]

*giggles*

Meghan and Ana get that way when the other sits on the toilet. "Now it's MY turn!" (even when they'd said they didn't want to before). This, of course, is quite good for all involved.

[ganas-de-ti.livejournal.com]

i dont know, thats how my dad treated me when i was young and i feel like i kind of subconciously (obviously on some level conciously) resent him for it. but i guess it's helpful in college, i have to do everything myself anyway. lol my roommate doesn't do my laundry.

[conuly]

Well, at the moment she's big into "I do it self!", so I doubt she resents me yet. She's a toddler. They love their independence.

Maybe when she gets bigger, she might, but even then, the unfortunate reality of the world is that other people don't exist to do things for you. Man, I wish that were the case, I'd never lift another finger in my life. But it's not. More's the pity.

[lizziey.livejournal.com]

you icon kills me. My husband tells me with how much I love pink, he's shocked my milk isn;t pink. And then one time, when i was leaking all over on of his uniform shirts, he said "hunny! You just turned my shirt pink!!! Look!"

:-p

[ser-kai.livejournal.com]

I'm determined that by the time they leave home, my boys will know how to cook & clean properly. I started when they were toddlers in the same way. Half the time Quinn won't let you help when he really needs it.

We're raising them to be adults, not overgrown kids.

[gingembre.livejournal.com]

Allow me to point you to an earlier comment in Connie's LJ that addresses this very concept, and that I LOVE: http://conuly.livejournal.com/1022940.html?thread=7628508#t7628508

[ser-kai.livejournal.com]

It's nice to know I'm not the only one that feels this way. :-)

[failstoexist.livejournal.com]

I think the suggestion of being cheerful and telling people she can do it would probably work. I know my cousin(who turned 2 at the end of October) insists on doing everything "myself! myself!" and wouldn't stand for the help. This means she gets to try out a lot of things on her own because she won't have it any other way, and probably at this point knows how to do a lot more than people think she can.

At some point, Ana will be able to let these random people know that she can do it herself. You could always try to let her do that, though I don't know how consistently polite she would be, or how important that is to you.

[conuly]

Well, I'm big on basic manners - you say please and thank you, and always yes please or no thanks, never just yes or no.

But I'm also big on her standing up for herself. Mostly on the same realm of self-reliance. Some kid bumps her accidentally, I want her to at least *start* by telling them to say sorry, instead of telling me to tell them to say sorry. (Now, if that doesn't work, I've no qualms about stepping in. It's difficult. We all want her to stand up for herself, but we don't want her to think she can't come to adults for help, y'know?)

[failstoexist.livejournal.com]

Maybe she can start saying "please let me do it myself" or "no thanks, I can do it" or something to that effect.

We do that at daycare(hasn't come up with the cousins, since I don't see them all too often)...tell the kids to talk to each other and say what's wrong. One in particular *loves* to tell other kids that they are "too loud! you hurt my ears!" and if that doesn't shut them up, she says "sue! carrie! manda! aiden hurt my ears! no yelling at lunch!" All of the older ones are getting better at trying to solve their own problems, and for the most part the kids listen. if they don't, we step in and say something like "aiden, molly told you that you were hurting her ears. now you need to stop yelling and apologize." I think that sort of shows that we will back them up, but we want them to try themselves first. It doesn't make what they said any less important, just reminds the other kid that they have to listen. Depending on the situation, they need us to step in a lot less now, especially with sharing issues.

[peebs1701.livejournal.com]

(Speaking of time-outs, I'm experimenting, with Jenn's approval, with giving Ana informal "until you calm down" time-outs. I think it's working - she calms down a lot faster, and for longer. This can only be good. But I'm really doing it because I'm too lazy to watch a clock.)

It may please you to learn that that is the recommended time-out technique from my Early Childhood Education class. Setting time limits doesn't really help because the goal is to help them calm down and control themselves. Some kids will need 30 seconds while some will need 10 minutes, but if they calm down quickly and still aren't allowed to go back and play you have moved out of the realm of guidance and discipline to punishment.

Anyway, the short version of that is "good job".

[conuly]

That is useful, thanks!

[leora.livejournal.com]

Maybe say, "Thank you for trying to help, but please don't assist her unless she asks for help." If they say something in response you can continue with, "We expect her to do what she can for herself and ask for help when she can't. We want her to learn when and how to ask for help." That should shut most people up.

And I think part of it is because people get tired of kids being asked to do unreasonable things and sometimes punished for not accomplishing them. I still wish I knew what to say to confront what I consider to be child abuse. Like some poor little kid who was asked to wait in the corner of the bathroom. This was reasonable. What wasn't was that the kid got yelled at for... I forget, something trivial. Like sitting down while waiting. Or fidgeting a little while waiting. The child wasn't disruptive, did not leave the area, and did nothing to harm anyone else. Yet the kid got yelled at. So, maybe some people are just hoping to head off some poor kid getting yelled at for not being able to fully and properly put on a smock at age 3. Because some people are stupid enough and cruel enough to do that.

Other than that - I have no idea. Although I will randomly assist people sometimes. Maybe they don't even think about it and it's just part of randomly helping out when it's trivial to do so.

You can always tell Ana, some people will sometimes randomly help you. And that's fine. But you shouldn't rely on it, and it's still good to learn how to do these things yourself. And then you can do it for yourself and sometimes help others.

[conuly]

I can understand being frustrated that your kid sat down in the bathroom. Because it's a *bathroom*, most people are convinced that the floors are, by that fact alone, absolutely the filthiest thing in the world. It may be okay to sit on *another* floor, but *that* floor is always bad to sit on, no matter what.

(I've never seen any evidence that a reasonably clean bathroom is going to have filthy floors in an area far away from the stalls, but I also don't see evidence that every spot of pavement is covered with broken glass, so....)

[leora.livejournal.com]

I hadn't thought of that. Although I'm fairly sure... and this is fuzzy and the specific incident doesn't matter, that there was no direct sitting. I meant squatting, sitting, where you sit on your calves kind of thing.

But the point is, some people just yell at kids way too easily, and if you've been exposed to much of this, you'll want to prevent it.

[conuly]

Oh. Yeah, in that case, it sounds like a complete overreaction.

Mind, I can understand that *too*, but I do my utmost best to keep my overreactions safe in sound in my little head. It just makes things worse to express them.

[conuly]

Not to say that it's all right to just blow up at the kid, but I can just see the thoughts that'd lead to that.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

Just tell them, 'oh, she can do it herself' in a cheery manner, like you are quite proud of her, or just tell them 'she likes to do it herself, now that she can', or something like that.

[conuly]

I think this is better than leora's suggestion, simply because I know these people are trying to be nice, so I don't want to upset them. Well, not unless they keep on doing it, I mean.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

And you know what? If they are the nicey nicey sort (which they probably are, since they're trying to help her), then they will probably gush and encourage her more, which could be a good thing. May even inspire other kids if they see she is doing it and getting praised. Heck, I'd love to hear a story from you soon that some kid will say "Let ME try, I can do it MYSELF". Heh.

[conuly]

*giggles*

Meghan and Ana get that way when the other sits on the toilet. "Now it's MY turn!" (even when they'd said they didn't want to before). This, of course, is quite good for all involved.

[ganas-de-ti.livejournal.com]

i dont know, thats how my dad treated me when i was young and i feel like i kind of subconciously (obviously on some level conciously) resent him for it. but i guess it's helpful in college, i have to do everything myself anyway. lol my roommate doesn't do my laundry.

[conuly]

Well, at the moment she's big into "I do it self!", so I doubt she resents me yet. She's a toddler. They love their independence.

Maybe when she gets bigger, she might, but even then, the unfortunate reality of the world is that other people don't exist to do things for you. Man, I wish that were the case, I'd never lift another finger in my life. But it's not. More's the pity.

[lizziey.livejournal.com]

you icon kills me. My husband tells me with how much I love pink, he's shocked my milk isn;t pink. And then one time, when i was leaking all over on of his uniform shirts, he said "hunny! You just turned my shirt pink!!! Look!"

:-p

[ser-kai.livejournal.com]

I'm determined that by the time they leave home, my boys will know how to cook & clean properly. I started when they were toddlers in the same way. Half the time Quinn won't let you help when he really needs it.

We're raising them to be adults, not overgrown kids.

[gingembre.livejournal.com]

Allow me to point you to an earlier comment in Connie's LJ that addresses this very concept, and that I LOVE: http://conuly.livejournal.com/1022940.html?thread=7628508#t7628508

[ser-kai.livejournal.com]

It's nice to know I'm not the only one that feels this way. :-)

[failstoexist.livejournal.com]

I think the suggestion of being cheerful and telling people she can do it would probably work. I know my cousin(who turned 2 at the end of October) insists on doing everything "myself! myself!" and wouldn't stand for the help. This means she gets to try out a lot of things on her own because she won't have it any other way, and probably at this point knows how to do a lot more than people think she can.

At some point, Ana will be able to let these random people know that she can do it herself. You could always try to let her do that, though I don't know how consistently polite she would be, or how important that is to you.

[conuly]

Well, I'm big on basic manners - you say please and thank you, and always yes please or no thanks, never just yes or no.

But I'm also big on her standing up for herself. Mostly on the same realm of self-reliance. Some kid bumps her accidentally, I want her to at least *start* by telling them to say sorry, instead of telling me to tell them to say sorry. (Now, if that doesn't work, I've no qualms about stepping in. It's difficult. We all want her to stand up for herself, but we don't want her to think she can't come to adults for help, y'know?)

[failstoexist.livejournal.com]

Maybe she can start saying "please let me do it myself" or "no thanks, I can do it" or something to that effect.

We do that at daycare(hasn't come up with the cousins, since I don't see them all too often)...tell the kids to talk to each other and say what's wrong. One in particular *loves* to tell other kids that they are "too loud! you hurt my ears!" and if that doesn't shut them up, she says "sue! carrie! manda! aiden hurt my ears! no yelling at lunch!" All of the older ones are getting better at trying to solve their own problems, and for the most part the kids listen. if they don't, we step in and say something like "aiden, molly told you that you were hurting her ears. now you need to stop yelling and apologize." I think that sort of shows that we will back them up, but we want them to try themselves first. It doesn't make what they said any less important, just reminds the other kid that they have to listen. Depending on the situation, they need us to step in a lot less now, especially with sharing issues.

[peebs1701.livejournal.com]

(Speaking of time-outs, I'm experimenting, with Jenn's approval, with giving Ana informal "until you calm down" time-outs. I think it's working - she calms down a lot faster, and for longer. This can only be good. But I'm really doing it because I'm too lazy to watch a clock.)

It may please you to learn that that is the recommended time-out technique from my Early Childhood Education class. Setting time limits doesn't really help because the goal is to help them calm down and control themselves. Some kids will need 30 seconds while some will need 10 minutes, but if they calm down quickly and still aren't allowed to go back and play you have moved out of the realm of guidance and discipline to punishment.

Anyway, the short version of that is "good job".

[conuly]

That is useful, thanks!