On praising kids (again)

[conuly]

I've been trying, lately, this new technique of not-really-praising Ana, but restricting myself to things like "Yes, I see you did it, looks like you had fun" or "You can do that by yourself now" and whatnot.

It wasn't reading up on the subject that really convinced me, of course - it's being around parental-types who go insane with the praise they heap on their kids. Kid scribbles a line on a piece of paper? "GOOOOOD JOOOOOB, KAYLIE!", every time the kid does it. Kid shares a toy? "GREAT SHARING!!!!!1111" Every time. Kid picks up something their mom asked them 20 times to pick up? "GOOD BOY! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!"

And all in the same syrup voice, most suitable for babies at least half the age of the child they're speaking to.

Even though I never went that way, my visceral reaction to hearing these people made me consider how silly (at best) the whole thing sounded.

I have two little anecdotes to illustrate my point more fully.

The first is about today. Ana climbed on two bins in the living room. I'm not sure if she's supposed to be doing this, but I let her do it anyway because I figured the worst that would happen is she'd fall and thump her head, and never do that again. And, indeed, she tried several times before finding the route to take that wouldn't make the bins wobble perilously. When she reached the top, she cautiously stood up - and discovered that, due to Jenn's very low ceilings (even before they start slanting), she couldn't stand up all the way! So she's standing there, hunched over, and she reaches her hands up...

"I TOUCH THE CEILING! Yeah! I climbed, and I do it all by self!"

And then she got down, again all by herself.

And it occured to me, watching her, that to sit there and fill in "Yes, and I'm so proud of you" or "LOOK! Good girl, you did it!" or whatever "enthusiastic" statement I could would be... wrong. Here's this kid, thrilled that she can climb up, by herself, and touch the ceiling, by herself, and then get down again, by herself - why would I take that away from her? How is "Great job!" better than "I did it myself!"? It just sounds to me like a way to take her joy away from her, to make it mine. Yes, you did it yourself - but let's talk about how proud that makes me, how good I think it is, how happy I am that you did this. Almost like it doesn't even matter if I don't get to put an opinion in. So all I said is "Yeah, you did. Need help getting down?" and then let her get down herself as well.

The other story, which explains my feelings in the first story, goes like this: Ana loves to glue things. I mean, she really loves to glue things. She loves it so much that our big project today was the collage we made....

Last Halloween, at the SICM, they had paper Jack-o-Lanterns. You took a cutout, glued on the appropriate number of black tissue paper triangles, and then colored it orange or black. Ana glommed right onto this - and proceeded to make the most hideous thing I've ever seen in my life. This thing was atrocious. It had tons of triangles on it, and they'd smeared a bit because tissue paper does that when it gets wet (or glued), and it had the most garishly placed orange scribble... We kept it on Jenn's fridge for a while, then gratefully threw it out. That thing was terrible. She seemed pretty happy making it, which is some consolation.

Of course, she's two, she's allowed to make art of dubious quality.

Quite a few of the children at this program (and at other programs during the year), even those significantly younger than Ana, managed to go home with artwork that their parents weren't embarassed to hang on their fridge. Not because they're more talented than she is, of course - but because their parents would "help them" color in their pumpkin (holding the markered hand and moving it) and "help them" put the eyes and nose in the right spot (by doing it largely themselves) and hide the gluestick far faster than I hid it. Rather, the parents did the work, and the kids got to help. And every step that these kids helped with, a lot of them, was met with "GOOD JOB!"

So we've got the one kid who comes home pretty much unpraised for the hideous pumpkin she did all by herself ("that looks like a lot of fun" doesn't count, does it?) - and you've got these kids coming home praised to the gills for the passable pumpkins their (presumed) parents did.

I don't know now which kids are going to be the happier ones, the better artists, the kinder ones. I don't know who's right and who's wrong. I don't know who I'm going to offend after this post. I don't know a lot of things.

I do know that patronizing is a big word.

Comments

[invsagoth.livejournal.com]

I think that praise shouldn't be heaped as liberally as it is so often by parents as well. If a kid is constantly praised for things, especially for things that aren't all that great, they end up constantly needing that reassurance and constant praise. And not just needing it, expecting it. It might not be the case all the time, but often enough. A kid should want to grow up and do things for their own sake, and I think that often that isn't the case.

About the pumpkins though, if I were one of the kids that were 'helped' by my parents I would have been really irritated. When I was little (and to this day) I would want to do something myself. If I was being 'helped' make a pumpkin, I would know that it wasn't my pumpkin. Kids should be allowed to make their own mistakes (to a point, I'm not advocating dangerous things are alright) to form their own identity, own opinions, etc.

[conuly]

A kid should want to grow up and do things for their own sake, and I think that often that isn't the case.

Intrinsic and extrinsic motivation? My "It sounds patronizing and condescending" argument isn't likely to be appreciated by random strangers, so if it comes up I've prepared the "I don't want to destroy her intrinsic motivation" argument.

You've read, of course, the studies showing that kindergardeners who were rewarded for coloring were subsequently less likely to color than kindergardeners who were not rewarded, yes? Or, take Neopets - some of those flash games, by themselves, I might play several times in one day, if I were bored enough. But with the 3x limit for sending scores and getting neopoints, I never play any flash game more than three times, even if I have nothing else to do and plenty of time to kill.

[leora.livejournal.com]

I was overly praised. In fairness, I was above-average. But I was praised for basically everything I did, even the things I wasn't as good at.

I didn't grow up to need praise. I grew up to doubt my abilities. I knew I'd be praised for everything I did, so I didn't know which things I was actually good at and which things sucked. In college, I got some honest friends and figured out my actual talents. That helped a lot and enabled me to focus on what I can do well. But I am annoyed at having wasted a few years being sidetracked by overpraise.

Underpraised is bad too. Not my problem, but kids who are constantly told they're not good enough will grow up with problems.

I've become a real fan of honest praise. If a kid truly does something good or impressive, comment on it. Honest feedback is handy. And kids are smart enough to figure out it means nothing if it's given all the time or to everyone. But honest feedback can really help kids figure out what to do with their lives as they grow up.

[peebs1701.livejournal.com]

I think another big problem will the lavish praise is that it tends to be pretty general. "What a good boy!" "That was a great job!" etc. instead of "That painting is beautiful." or "You run very fast."

[conuly]

Even that... "The painting is beautiful". What does beautiful mean? Does it mean the kid's paintings aren't worthwhile if they're not beautiful? Such a vague thing. Why not "Looks like you worked hard on it" or "You used a lot of blue, is that your favorite? Do you like blue?" or "This painting makes me feel a bit scared, with the monsters like that" or whatever?

Or instead of the general "You run very fast" we could always get creative and say "You've been practicing running, I can tell" or "I like running with you" or... I don't know.

Not to criticize, because I know I do that, but it seems like "the painting is beautiful" and "you run very fast" can, with repitition, become just as vague and meaningless as "good job!" I'm finding it easier now to ignore the concept of praise and just talk about whatever-it-is - plus, the attention works as its own reward, doesn't it? "Wow, I can tell Connie likes my work, because she always wants to talk about it, and she sees what I've done" (At least, now that works - eventually it'll be "DAMN! Can't my family leave me alone for ONE MINUTE????", I predict.

[sayga.livejournal.com]

I think I'm somwhere in between. I know sometimes I could be accused of over-praising, but I try to stay in the middle. I always want to acknowledge when she does good, and I try to catch her doing good things so I can reward her, rather than only notice her when she's being naughty/mischievous (which would mean she got a lot of negative attention). But I also don't like to be over the top.

Lately I've been thinking about this same thing though. Kira loves to "help." If I say, "come over here," she does NOTHING. If I say, "come help me," she comes running. Since she already loves helping (usually with the dishwasher), do I praise her so she continues to like it, or not praise her and let her develop her own sense of self-satisfaction (but what if she doesn't?)?

I have read that kids who are over-praised may be praise-driven later in life because they have never learned to see value in their own work, but always to receive praise from others to know that they have done a good job.

[leora.livejournal.com]

Personally, I would thank her. That's what you do when someone helps you. It sets a good example, is probably motivating, and isn't overkill.

[conuly]

I am, of course, hardly a childhood expert. Except in that I once was a child, but that doesn't really count. If it did, we'd all feel self-satisfied and never worry again :)

But I go with "thank you". It doesn't, to my mind, count as praise because it's expected - you say thank you when people do something for you. And please - "Ana, please get me the diaper. Thank you!" My family's not that great with pleases, it tends to be implied, but I want to set a good example for the nieceling, so I've been obsessing over them lately.

As for praise... there've been studies showing that if you reward somebody for doing something they like, they like it less than they did before - and less than another group of people who wasn't rewarded for the same thing. I posted a personal, neopets-related example of that up above.

I will, if bored enough, kill hours playing the same web game over and over again. I really like some neopets flash games, but I won't play any of them after 3 times. Why? Because after three plays, my reward goes away - I don't like the game as much now as I did before, when I was playing almost identical games (in many cases) sans reward.

It's completely counterintuitive, of course, which is why people don't like to believe it. Even when you can bring up examples from your own life, we still don't like to believe something so contrary to plain common sense.

[failstoexist.livejournal.com]

I try to praise the kids at daycare for doing things that maybe they should be doing. Like...if someone shares without complaining or needing me to ask, sometimes I'll throw in a "good job sharing, ___" or "I like how nicely my friends are playing together" (that's how we're supposed to refer to them. oy). I've found myself saying things like "___ you used your spoon so well. Can you keep using your spoon instead of eating peaches with your fingers?" I feel like these things give them some sort of motivation to learn how to use a spoon without making a mess, or get used to sharing well, or other things like that. If the kid is never asked to use a spoon, how will he get good at it so it doesn't always make a huge mess? But I don't praise the kids who've been using a spoon for ages for that-it wouldn't make sense.

I've always hated when everyone gets an award, or you can't make red marks on a kid's paper because it's psychologically damaging, or any of these other self-esteem type ideas. But I think that if kids are offered praise for things that they've stretched themselves in some way to do, it gives them not only their own feeling of accomplishment, but also a motivation to continue. A kid can feel good for making "art" if they mush their food around on their plate, but without praise for other types of art, they might not feel like it's less appropriate to play with food. I think praise helps kids learn the rules and what's expected of them, as long as it's kept to an appropriate type/level.

I understand what you're saying though, and I agree to a point.

[conuly]

I feel like these things give them some sort of motivation to learn how to use a spoon without making a mess, or get used to sharing well, or other things like that.

*shrugs* I prefer the more indirect methods - "Do you see how happy Karen is that you've shared your doll with her? She's smiling a lot." or "Hey! You know, I just realized, if you use the spoon, your hands don't get so dirty, which means you can go play faster!"

I've seen studies showing that children rewarded for doing something want to do it *less* than children who weren't rewarded for it. I haven't seen studies showing that children shown the results of their actions... I mean... it doesn't seem to have much chance to be counterproductive.

Plus, I remember being a snotnosed little brat. People telling me I used a spoon well would've made me, instinctively, reach for the food with my hands. Same for anything of that sort. I thought that sort of thing was childish when I *was* a child, and I didn't like it :)

I've always hated when everyone gets an award, or you can't make red marks on a kid's paper because it's psychologically damaging, or any of these other self-esteem type ideas.

Ugh. Agreed to the umpteenth power. Plus one.

I like how nicely my friends are playing together" (that's how we're supposed to refer to them. oy)

*cracks up laughing*

My mom relates this story of how, one day when Jenn was somewhere between 3 and 6, she was having a tantrum. And in the middle of this tantrum she yells, as children that age are wont to do, "If you (whatever it was), then I WON'T BE YOUR FRIEND ANYMORE!"

And my mom laughed in her face. "Good! Because I'm not your friend. I'm your mother. And now you have to (whatever it was)."

Ana does that by saying "I don't like Connie!" and I have the same reaction. "Okay, Ana, that's good to know, you still have to put on your shoes."

[wodhaund.livejournal.com]

I think there's a very fine line between too much and not enough. My sister, the firstborn, got praise for every little thing she did. Didn't matter how trivial, or how ...anything, really. What she heard was always "Look what a good job you did!" And now, even she acknowledges it was too much. It's sometimes very difficult to go out of her way to do things for her co-workers or even for friends, because they don't praise her, and she's become so accustomed to it, she has difficulty reacting to a lack of praise.

On the other hand, I'm the youngest, so by the time they got to me, they were all praised out. It didn't (and still doesn't) matter how much effort I put into something, I have to fight for something as simple as acknowledgement of my hard work. I don't expect "Wow, what a good job!" when I'm just doing my everyday routine, certainly, but if I've got a project I've been working on for weeks and have finally finished to perfection (or at least, satisfaction), it's nice to occasionally hear a "That looks good." or "Wow, you spent a lot of time to get that just so, didn't you?" So in the end, I'm the opposite of my sister, and find myself often loathe to do things for others because I very much feel it doesn't matter. It doesn't seem as though my efforts will be noticed one way or another, so there's little point in trying.

Granted, both cases are a bit extreme, but it's an example.

What I think you really need to be careful of is glossing over her efforts entirely and paying close attention only when something goes wrong. Noticing a child only when things aren't right is a sure-fire way to screw the kid up for life, imo.

[conuly]

What I think you really need to be careful of is glossing over her efforts entirely and paying close attention only when something goes wrong. Noticing a child only when things aren't right is a sure-fire way to screw the kid up for life, imo.

I certainly don't ignore her inbetweentimes! I just don't praise her. If I like something, I try to find a way to say that without saying "Gee, that's a pretty picture, Ana!" but more "Can you tell me about that? I can see you care a lot about it" or whatever seems appropriate - and then paying attention to her reply, of course.

Which is the same again - a lot of compliments can just be repeated without having to pay any attention to the kid. Noticing what's going on takes more honest effort.

[tsukikage85.livejournal.com]

I don't know quite how I feel, but I think at least saying "good job" in situations like the first is warranted. I mean, "good job" isn't making it about yourself, and if she was clearly excited enough to tell you about it, she might be hurt if you you just wave her off.

[conuly]

I don't think I waved her off - I replied to her, I smiled, I offered to help her down (and would've if she'd wanted it). If the issue had been pushed, I would've added that she didn't need my help, that I could see she was happy, that I could tell this was a big deal to her.

Good job is what you say to a dog. So hollow.

Besides, at this point, she generates excitement (though not *that* much excitement) for everything. "CONNIE! I PICK UP BOOK!" "CONNIE! I BLOWING BUBBLES IN WATER!" "CONNIE! I DANCING! I DANCING, CONNIE!!!!!"

You can't be as enthused as she is about everything, it'd be patently insincere.

[l33tminion]

That reminds me of something. In some of the volunteer work I do, I work at a school for mentally disabled adults. I'm often bothered by the extent and manner in which my teammates praise the students they're working with.

On the other hand, while I seem to be the only member of the group really concerned about the issue, I'm not sure I'm handling it any better. I sometimes wonder if I should be a bit more willing to "humor" the students' eccentricities or praise them for their efforts.

Eh, that's sort of off topic, but I'm just musing...

Ruminations in retrospect

[old-cutter-john.livejournal.com]

As a parent, I felt as you do, and behaved accordingly. Sometimes, looking back, I think I underdid the praise. On the other hand, my son took up cartooning, and found my occasional exclamations of, "Wow! That's good!" useful, to let him know when he was on to something. His mother said that about everything he drew, so he never believed her. All in all, both kids turned out great: highly effective adults, which is what I intended. Too many parents set out to raise good kids, but there's no future in being a good kid — and anyway, most parents fail even at that.

Re: Ruminations in retrospect

[gingembre.livejournal.com]

All in all, both kids turned out great: highly effective adults, which is what I intended. Too many parents set out to raise good kids, but there's no future in being a good kid — and anyway, most parents fail even at that.

This is one of the best things I've read in a while. If you don't mind, I am going to modify it a bit and put it in my profile!

[brownkitty.livejournal.com]

I don't know if I overpraise my children or not. I do know that I try to be a stickler for "please" and "thank you", and a lot of the praise I do give is accompanied by a hug or some other small physical sign of affection. Hug, kiss, small tickle, beep the nose, pet the hair, something.

But then, I've also worked on "I still love you even when I'm mad", as I do have a temper. The kids understand it enough that they've occasionally said it back to me, both that I still love them and that they still love me.

I think a lot of people don't understand the difference between praise and appreciation.

[leora.livejournal.com]

I think you raise a really good point. I think some of these parents are just drowning in concern for self-esteem building and think this is the way to do it. But I think some of them are trying to express their love for their kids through praise. All told - there are worse ways. I've seen love expressed through food (which can turn very ugly), love expressed through money (not ideal, but it does help one develop a good music collection), and now I suspect there are people expressing love through praise. It'd be better if people could learn to express love more directly, and while I think overpraising is a mistake, it's hard being a parent and everyone will mess up parts of it, it's really not the worse way to mess up. So, your kid learns to never trust your opinion on anything they do, but they also learn that you love them and will stand behind them through anything. Not ideal, but could be far worse. (generic you in those sentences, by the way, I'm not saying you personally do this)

[invsagoth.livejournal.com]

I think that praise shouldn't be heaped as liberally as it is so often by parents as well. If a kid is constantly praised for things, especially for things that aren't all that great, they end up constantly needing that reassurance and constant praise. And not just needing it, expecting it. It might not be the case all the time, but often enough. A kid should want to grow up and do things for their own sake, and I think that often that isn't the case.

About the pumpkins though, if I were one of the kids that were 'helped' by my parents I would have been really irritated. When I was little (and to this day) I would want to do something myself. If I was being 'helped' make a pumpkin, I would know that it wasn't my pumpkin. Kids should be allowed to make their own mistakes (to a point, I'm not advocating dangerous things are alright) to form their own identity, own opinions, etc.

[conuly]

A kid should want to grow up and do things for their own sake, and I think that often that isn't the case.

Intrinsic and extrinsic motivation? My "It sounds patronizing and condescending" argument isn't likely to be appreciated by random strangers, so if it comes up I've prepared the "I don't want to destroy her intrinsic motivation" argument.

You've read, of course, the studies showing that kindergardeners who were rewarded for coloring were subsequently less likely to color than kindergardeners who were not rewarded, yes? Or, take Neopets - some of those flash games, by themselves, I might play several times in one day, if I were bored enough. But with the 3x limit for sending scores and getting neopoints, I never play any flash game more than three times, even if I have nothing else to do and plenty of time to kill.

[peebs1701.livejournal.com]

I think another big problem will the lavish praise is that it tends to be pretty general. "What a good boy!" "That was a great job!" etc. instead of "That painting is beautiful." or "You run very fast."

[conuly]

Even that... "The painting is beautiful". What does beautiful mean? Does it mean the kid's paintings aren't worthwhile if they're not beautiful? Such a vague thing. Why not "Looks like you worked hard on it" or "You used a lot of blue, is that your favorite? Do you like blue?" or "This painting makes me feel a bit scared, with the monsters like that" or whatever?

Or instead of the general "You run very fast" we could always get creative and say "You've been practicing running, I can tell" or "I like running with you" or... I don't know.

Not to criticize, because I know I do that, but it seems like "the painting is beautiful" and "you run very fast" can, with repitition, become just as vague and meaningless as "good job!" I'm finding it easier now to ignore the concept of praise and just talk about whatever-it-is - plus, the attention works as its own reward, doesn't it? "Wow, I can tell Connie likes my work, because she always wants to talk about it, and she sees what I've done" (At least, now that works - eventually it'll be "DAMN! Can't my family leave me alone for ONE MINUTE????", I predict.

[sayga.livejournal.com]

I think I'm somwhere in between. I know sometimes I could be accused of over-praising, but I try to stay in the middle. I always want to acknowledge when she does good, and I try to catch her doing good things so I can reward her, rather than only notice her when she's being naughty/mischievous (which would mean she got a lot of negative attention). But I also don't like to be over the top.

Lately I've been thinking about this same thing though. Kira loves to "help." If I say, "come over here," she does NOTHING. If I say, "come help me," she comes running. Since she already loves helping (usually with the dishwasher), do I praise her so she continues to like it, or not praise her and let her develop her own sense of self-satisfaction (but what if she doesn't?)?

I have read that kids who are over-praised may be praise-driven later in life because they have never learned to see value in their own work, but always to receive praise from others to know that they have done a good job.

[leora.livejournal.com]

Personally, I would thank her. That's what you do when someone helps you. It sets a good example, is probably motivating, and isn't overkill.

[failstoexist.livejournal.com]

I try to praise the kids at daycare for doing things that maybe they should be doing. Like...if someone shares without complaining or needing me to ask, sometimes I'll throw in a "good job sharing, ___" or "I like how nicely my friends are playing together" (that's how we're supposed to refer to them. oy). I've found myself saying things like "___ you used your spoon so well. Can you keep using your spoon instead of eating peaches with your fingers?" I feel like these things give them some sort of motivation to learn how to use a spoon without making a mess, or get used to sharing well, or other things like that. If the kid is never asked to use a spoon, how will he get good at it so it doesn't always make a huge mess? But I don't praise the kids who've been using a spoon for ages for that-it wouldn't make sense.

I've always hated when everyone gets an award, or you can't make red marks on a kid's paper because it's psychologically damaging, or any of these other self-esteem type ideas. But I think that if kids are offered praise for things that they've stretched themselves in some way to do, it gives them not only their own feeling of accomplishment, but also a motivation to continue. A kid can feel good for making "art" if they mush their food around on their plate, but without praise for other types of art, they might not feel like it's less appropriate to play with food. I think praise helps kids learn the rules and what's expected of them, as long as it's kept to an appropriate type/level.

I understand what you're saying though, and I agree to a point.

[conuly]

I feel like these things give them some sort of motivation to learn how to use a spoon without making a mess, or get used to sharing well, or other things like that.

*shrugs* I prefer the more indirect methods - "Do you see how happy Karen is that you've shared your doll with her? She's smiling a lot." or "Hey! You know, I just realized, if you use the spoon, your hands don't get so dirty, which means you can go play faster!"

I've seen studies showing that children rewarded for doing something want to do it *less* than children who weren't rewarded for it. I haven't seen studies showing that children shown the results of their actions... I mean... it doesn't seem to have much chance to be counterproductive.

Plus, I remember being a snotnosed little brat. People telling me I used a spoon well would've made me, instinctively, reach for the food with my hands. Same for anything of that sort. I thought that sort of thing was childish when I *was* a child, and I didn't like it :)

I've always hated when everyone gets an award, or you can't make red marks on a kid's paper because it's psychologically damaging, or any of these other self-esteem type ideas.

Ugh. Agreed to the umpteenth power. Plus one.

I like how nicely my friends are playing together" (that's how we're supposed to refer to them. oy)

*cracks up laughing*

My mom relates this story of how, one day when Jenn was somewhere between 3 and 6, she was having a tantrum. And in the middle of this tantrum she yells, as children that age are wont to do, "If you (whatever it was), then I WON'T BE YOUR FRIEND ANYMORE!"

And my mom laughed in her face. "Good! Because I'm not your friend. I'm your mother. And now you have to (whatever it was)."

Ana does that by saying "I don't like Connie!" and I have the same reaction. "Okay, Ana, that's good to know, you still have to put on your shoes."

[wodhaund.livejournal.com]

I think there's a very fine line between too much and not enough. My sister, the firstborn, got praise for every little thing she did. Didn't matter how trivial, or how ...anything, really. What she heard was always "Look what a good job you did!" And now, even she acknowledges it was too much. It's sometimes very difficult to go out of her way to do things for her co-workers or even for friends, because they don't praise her, and she's become so accustomed to it, she has difficulty reacting to a lack of praise.

On the other hand, I'm the youngest, so by the time they got to me, they were all praised out. It didn't (and still doesn't) matter how much effort I put into something, I have to fight for something as simple as acknowledgement of my hard work. I don't expect "Wow, what a good job!" when I'm just doing my everyday routine, certainly, but if I've got a project I've been working on for weeks and have finally finished to perfection (or at least, satisfaction), it's nice to occasionally hear a "That looks good." or "Wow, you spent a lot of time to get that just so, didn't you?" So in the end, I'm the opposite of my sister, and find myself often loathe to do things for others because I very much feel it doesn't matter. It doesn't seem as though my efforts will be noticed one way or another, so there's little point in trying.

Granted, both cases are a bit extreme, but it's an example.

What I think you really need to be careful of is glossing over her efforts entirely and paying close attention only when something goes wrong. Noticing a child only when things aren't right is a sure-fire way to screw the kid up for life, imo.

[conuly]

What I think you really need to be careful of is glossing over her efforts entirely and paying close attention only when something goes wrong. Noticing a child only when things aren't right is a sure-fire way to screw the kid up for life, imo.

I certainly don't ignore her inbetweentimes! I just don't praise her. If I like something, I try to find a way to say that without saying "Gee, that's a pretty picture, Ana!" but more "Can you tell me about that? I can see you care a lot about it" or whatever seems appropriate - and then paying attention to her reply, of course.

Which is the same again - a lot of compliments can just be repeated without having to pay any attention to the kid. Noticing what's going on takes more honest effort.

[tsukikage85.livejournal.com]

I don't know quite how I feel, but I think at least saying "good job" in situations like the first is warranted. I mean, "good job" isn't making it about yourself, and if she was clearly excited enough to tell you about it, she might be hurt if you you just wave her off.

[conuly]

I don't think I waved her off - I replied to her, I smiled, I offered to help her down (and would've if she'd wanted it). If the issue had been pushed, I would've added that she didn't need my help, that I could see she was happy, that I could tell this was a big deal to her.

Good job is what you say to a dog. So hollow.

Besides, at this point, she generates excitement (though not *that* much excitement) for everything. "CONNIE! I PICK UP BOOK!" "CONNIE! I BLOWING BUBBLES IN WATER!" "CONNIE! I DANCING! I DANCING, CONNIE!!!!!"

You can't be as enthused as she is about everything, it'd be patently insincere.

[l33tminion]

That reminds me of something. In some of the volunteer work I do, I work at a school for mentally disabled adults. I'm often bothered by the extent and manner in which my teammates praise the students they're working with.

On the other hand, while I seem to be the only member of the group really concerned about the issue, I'm not sure I'm handling it any better. I sometimes wonder if I should be a bit more willing to "humor" the students' eccentricities or praise them for their efforts.

Eh, that's sort of off topic, but I'm just musing...

Ruminations in retrospect

[old-cutter-john.livejournal.com]

As a parent, I felt as you do, and behaved accordingly. Sometimes, looking back, I think I underdid the praise. On the other hand, my son took up cartooning, and found my occasional exclamations of, "Wow! That's good!" useful, to let him know when he was on to something. His mother said that about everything he drew, so he never believed her. All in all, both kids turned out great: highly effective adults, which is what I intended. Too many parents set out to raise good kids, but there's no future in being a good kid — and anyway, most parents fail even at that.

Re: Ruminations in retrospect

[gingembre.livejournal.com]

All in all, both kids turned out great: highly effective adults, which is what I intended. Too many parents set out to raise good kids, but there's no future in being a good kid — and anyway, most parents fail even at that.

This is one of the best things I've read in a while. If you don't mind, I am going to modify it a bit and put it in my profile!

[brownkitty.livejournal.com]

I don't know if I overpraise my children or not. I do know that I try to be a stickler for "please" and "thank you", and a lot of the praise I do give is accompanied by a hug or some other small physical sign of affection. Hug, kiss, small tickle, beep the nose, pet the hair, something.

But then, I've also worked on "I still love you even when I'm mad", as I do have a temper. The kids understand it enough that they've occasionally said it back to me, both that I still love them and that they still love me.

I think a lot of people don't understand the difference between praise and appreciation.

[leora.livejournal.com]

I think you raise a really good point. I think some of these parents are just drowning in concern for self-esteem building and think this is the way to do it. But I think some of them are trying to express their love for their kids through praise. All told - there are worse ways. I've seen love expressed through food (which can turn very ugly), love expressed through money (not ideal, but it does help one develop a good music collection), and now I suspect there are people expressing love through praise. It'd be better if people could learn to express love more directly, and while I think overpraising is a mistake, it's hard being a parent and everyone will mess up parts of it, it's really not the worse way to mess up. So, your kid learns to never trust your opinion on anything they do, but they also learn that you love them and will stand behind them through anything. Not ideal, but could be far worse. (generic you in those sentences, by the way, I'm not saying you personally do this)