conuly

IIRC, though, autistic and NT kids rock for different reasons, not just to different degrees.

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conuly

I wouldn't know. I know why *I* do things, but I'm not going to say I know why *they* do things - we could every one be wrong about that.

Anyway, the outside world is only going to notice that one kid does it more, or at different times.

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I only know because (as odd as this sounds) my core perseveration for about 10 years was NT psychology, child development, and attachment theories -- so I read everything I could get my hands on plus pestered everybody asking. (I wanted to know why I was different...took me three years after I gave up to find out!)

We could try asking in our LJs, and get the information from "our" NTs, anyway. :)

One of the reasons I consider it important is because one of the reasons NTs discourage "autistic behavior" is from their assumption that it serves the same purpose (or lack thereof) as when they do it. For example, it's the core between "fidgeting" (movements that generally indicate boredom and interfere with paying attention in NTs) and "stimming" (movements that indicate stress and *aid* in paying attention in ACs). Or staring away from the subject of attention, which in NTs indicates "my attention is elsewhere" but in ACs often indicates "I am shutting off one sense so I can rely on another" or another attention-focusing scheme.

Sorry, I'm rambling today...this is one of those cases where I know there's an important point to make, but I'm too tired/scattered to actually say it properly! :-p

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conuly

Nah, you make sense :)

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I'm NT and I like to rock because it's soothing and it facilitates my entry into my fantasy world.

And I don't like to look people in the eye because it feels too intimate a lot of the time.

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I never said that those were the only reasons. Those were some examples off the top of my head, and (as I said) I was rambling, not presenting an ordered thesis. :-p

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Okay, fair enough. :)

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snale.livejournal.com

A friend of mine was just telling me how she brought her son (2 yrs. old) to an occupational therapist and every single thing her child did was considered an indicator for a developmental problem. The therapist seemed alarmed that he curled his toes, and that he pulled his arm away when she rubbed it with a hairbrush... Er, what? Don't all babies do those things?
Funny that you mention spinning, too. :) In the same conversation, my friend mentioned that her whole family was obsessed with spinning things when they were growing up. She said it was just as likely that they'd tip their bicycles upside down to watch the wheels spin, as it was that they'd ride them. I'm sure the theapist would have had a field day with that tidbit, but apparently 20 years ago, that was just called "kids having fun".
I think our society is kinda obsessed with diagnosing and normalizing everyone right now. I hope it passes. It's kind of a bummer. People don't seem to think of each other as people anymore; we're just walking bags of symptoms.

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When I was little it was our big wheels and tricycles and we would spin the front wheel, maybe put rocks against it and call it 'making ice cream' and I dont know why.

From:

That's one of my fears of getting my son evaluated, that every little thing would be seen as a problem...especially since so often money is at stake.

From:

conuly

Well, he's still the same kid he was already. So you don't have to view things as problems unless they are, do you?

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He's not the same kid which IS the current problem but what I mean is I don't want him put on a track that won't give him freedom and choices.

I don't want him denied access to programs because they think he can't handle them because he is getting any sort of services. I don't want him treated for things he doesn't have, or have them project problems onto what may be something ok.

Say it turns out to be something that just needs a speech therapist. He goes in nursery, goes in pre-k, and then they evaluate him for gifted program. But he's getting speech help, so they judge him based on that, there is no way he could be gifted because he needs help for something -- or even the teachers treating him as less intelligent because he gets that help. Now imagine he doesnt really NEED the help but they assign it to him because they get money for it, or he's just borderline and they don't want to 'graduate' him from a program because they get something out of it -- will this hold him back academically at all?

I want him to have as many opportunities as any other kid, and I am concerned with the way the board of education labels and pigeonholes children, so an unnecessary label would hinder him (even a necessary one would).

Hell I see the doors closed just because Finbar ISNT gifted! And I see obviously gifted kids not getting into the program because of a test and bored shitless.

So staying on top of things, from my gifted, to my 'regular' to my possible special needs kid is a priority, for each of them. It's just that each label causes its own unique set of problems and with Ted it looks like there is one hell of a learning curve...the more I talk to other parents that I know, the more I'm leaning towards him getting diagnosed (?) as autistic, of what kind or extent I don't know yet.

But the label doesnt matter, the opportunities and his happiness do.

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conuly

I was in speech classes (which really sucked, and were badly run after my first teacher went away), and also the gifted program. That's what IEPs are for.

I'm not going to lie and say that getting a diagnosis can't cause its own problems, but it's not a definite problem in and of itself.

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Well I'm not going to ignore getting a diagnosis, of course, I just have seen where kids were given things just to keep programs (like Early Intervention) going and know some parents who really try to get their kids in it, mostly for the break/free daycare it gets. I've had parents ADMIT that! "Oh I dont think there is that much wrong with my kid but it's fantastic, they pick her up, take her for a few hours and send her back and its FREE."

I was just looking into a recommended place, Thursday's Child, but it appears that it is early intervention only. My MIL may have info on where to get him evaluated, too, because it's part of her job, finding services for children. (Step MIL, the sane one, not the nuts one in Iowa.)

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I had a bunch of wierd habits when I was a kid that really seemed to bother people. For example, people really seemed to hate it when I twirled my hair, sang to myself, things like that. I remember once I was pulled aside and told not to draw pictures in the air.

I've gathered that folks are generally not too tolerant of eccentricity, whether it's in autistics or plain wierd kids like I was. I don't really get it either, since none of that stuff I was doing was actually hurting anybody.

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brownkitty.livejournal.com

I talk with my hands. Colin flaps his arms, or swings them exaggeratedly when he walks. I want him to stop doing this when there are people around mostly because he seems to be completely unaware of how much space he takes up. He hits people and things because he just isn't aware of the spatial relationship if it involves him.

He rarely makes eye contact. I make eye contact, but can't hold it for more than a few seconds. I rarely insist on him looking at me, and when I do it's mostly so that I can be sure I've got his complete attention.

I could go on about what he as an Aspie does that I as an NT (I guess, I've never been evaluated) do to a lesser degree.

There are things I want him to stop because I don't want someone else thinking that Colin is trying to provoke a fight. Does anyone know if there's a way to change to a different kind of stimming?

From:

conuly

I don't swing my arms when I walk unless I'm thinking about it. If they move at all, it's simply from gravity. How odd.

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lordalfredhenry.livejournal.com

Wow...kinda bright ;)

Anyhow, it does match your logo after all. :P But yes, I have said this kind of thing before myself. I just wrote something about a Duke University study last month that basically hints that autistics are like energizer bunnies. They keep going and going and going and sometimes until their nerves burn out...this due to a lack of GABA receptors. GABA is the "slow and stop" signal in the brain that tells most kids to stop after 5 minutes. Autistics just keep going and going and going. That is the main difference. :D Just thought you would like to know that there was a real medical reason why autistics do it more to an "extreme" but is pretty much the same "behaviour" as an NT child or adult. I pointed out rocking chairs to a lot of people and a lot of NTs leg bounce like I do but I do so more pronouncedly and with higher "endurance" so to speak....NTs will stop and switch or fiddle after a while.

From:

IIRC, though, autistic and NT kids rock for different reasons, not just to different degrees.

From:

conuly

I wouldn't know. I know why *I* do things, but I'm not going to say I know why *they* do things - we could every one be wrong about that.

Anyway, the outside world is only going to notice that one kid does it more, or at different times.

From:

I only know because (as odd as this sounds) my core perseveration for about 10 years was NT psychology, child development, and attachment theories -- so I read everything I could get my hands on plus pestered everybody asking. (I wanted to know why I was different...took me three years after I gave up to find out!)

We could try asking in our LJs, and get the information from "our" NTs, anyway. :)

One of the reasons I consider it important is because one of the reasons NTs discourage "autistic behavior" is from their assumption that it serves the same purpose (or lack thereof) as when they do it. For example, it's the core between "fidgeting" (movements that generally indicate boredom and interfere with paying attention in NTs) and "stimming" (movements that indicate stress and *aid* in paying attention in ACs). Or staring away from the subject of attention, which in NTs indicates "my attention is elsewhere" but in ACs often indicates "I am shutting off one sense so I can rely on another" or another attention-focusing scheme.

Sorry, I'm rambling today...this is one of those cases where I know there's an important point to make, but I'm too tired/scattered to actually say it properly! :-p

From:

conuly

Nah, you make sense :)

From:

I'm NT and I like to rock because it's soothing and it facilitates my entry into my fantasy world.

And I don't like to look people in the eye because it feels too intimate a lot of the time.

From:

I never said that those were the only reasons. Those were some examples off the top of my head, and (as I said) I was rambling, not presenting an ordered thesis. :-p

From:

Okay, fair enough. :)

From:

snale.livejournal.com

A friend of mine was just telling me how she brought her son (2 yrs. old) to an occupational therapist and every single thing her child did was considered an indicator for a developmental problem. The therapist seemed alarmed that he curled his toes, and that he pulled his arm away when she rubbed it with a hairbrush... Er, what? Don't all babies do those things?
Funny that you mention spinning, too. :) In the same conversation, my friend mentioned that her whole family was obsessed with spinning things when they were growing up. She said it was just as likely that they'd tip their bicycles upside down to watch the wheels spin, as it was that they'd ride them. I'm sure the theapist would have had a field day with that tidbit, but apparently 20 years ago, that was just called "kids having fun".
I think our society is kinda obsessed with diagnosing and normalizing everyone right now. I hope it passes. It's kind of a bummer. People don't seem to think of each other as people anymore; we're just walking bags of symptoms.

From:

When I was little it was our big wheels and tricycles and we would spin the front wheel, maybe put rocks against it and call it 'making ice cream' and I dont know why.

From:

That's one of my fears of getting my son evaluated, that every little thing would be seen as a problem...especially since so often money is at stake.

From:

conuly

Well, he's still the same kid he was already. So you don't have to view things as problems unless they are, do you?

From:

He's not the same kid which IS the current problem but what I mean is I don't want him put on a track that won't give him freedom and choices.

I don't want him denied access to programs because they think he can't handle them because he is getting any sort of services. I don't want him treated for things he doesn't have, or have them project problems onto what may be something ok.

Say it turns out to be something that just needs a speech therapist. He goes in nursery, goes in pre-k, and then they evaluate him for gifted program. But he's getting speech help, so they judge him based on that, there is no way he could be gifted because he needs help for something -- or even the teachers treating him as less intelligent because he gets that help. Now imagine he doesnt really NEED the help but they assign it to him because they get money for it, or he's just borderline and they don't want to 'graduate' him from a program because they get something out of it -- will this hold him back academically at all?

I want him to have as many opportunities as any other kid, and I am concerned with the way the board of education labels and pigeonholes children, so an unnecessary label would hinder him (even a necessary one would).

Hell I see the doors closed just because Finbar ISNT gifted! And I see obviously gifted kids not getting into the program because of a test and bored shitless.

So staying on top of things, from my gifted, to my 'regular' to my possible special needs kid is a priority, for each of them. It's just that each label causes its own unique set of problems and with Ted it looks like there is one hell of a learning curve...the more I talk to other parents that I know, the more I'm leaning towards him getting diagnosed (?) as autistic, of what kind or extent I don't know yet.

But the label doesnt matter, the opportunities and his happiness do.

From:

conuly

I was in speech classes (which really sucked, and were badly run after my first teacher went away), and also the gifted program. That's what IEPs are for.

I'm not going to lie and say that getting a diagnosis can't cause its own problems, but it's not a definite problem in and of itself.

From:

Well I'm not going to ignore getting a diagnosis, of course, I just have seen where kids were given things just to keep programs (like Early Intervention) going and know some parents who really try to get their kids in it, mostly for the break/free daycare it gets. I've had parents ADMIT that! "Oh I dont think there is that much wrong with my kid but it's fantastic, they pick her up, take her for a few hours and send her back and its FREE."

I was just looking into a recommended place, Thursday's Child, but it appears that it is early intervention only. My MIL may have info on where to get him evaluated, too, because it's part of her job, finding services for children. (Step MIL, the sane one, not the nuts one in Iowa.)

From: