General rules I hope people understand....

[conuly]

1. When offering food to a toddler or little kid, please ask the guardian before waving the food in front of the kid's face. Most people do remember to ask the parent/aunt, but only after the kid has already seen it. It's really hard to tell her no when her hands are already on the candy.

1a. If we all say yes, and "put it away for later", there's a good chance that the kid isn't getting whatever delicious snack you offered. The rest of us like cookies too.

2. DO NOT TAP ON THE ANIMAL CAGES. Seriously. When we went out to eat the other day, the place we went to had a fishtank at the front door. The fish were swimming all around, except when they saw a child or very short person walk by. Then they'd scurry (inasmuch as fish can scurry) to the farthest corner of the tank and stay completely still. I can only imagine that their tank has been banged on far too often, which is a pity, because Ana thought they were cool and wasn't about to bang on the tank. Then we go to the BCM, and they have animals - and the number of kids who banged on the tanks of the animals and didn't get told off by their parents for it is scary. That's frakkin' rude, and any child old enough to walk up to a glass tank and do that is old enough to not do it.

3. While we're at it, if you can teach your older kids to watch where they're going, thanks...? I'd like to tell Ana to watch where she's going, but she's a toddler, she doesn't always listen. When she's seven, I hope she *does* listen and doesn't randomly trip over toddlers and small dogs.

4. If the bus or subway is crowded, your very young child who didn't pay for a seat on the bus or subway should sit in your lap, or stand. This goes double if somebody else is carrying lots of packages, or is very old, or is pregnant, or is obviously not steady on their feet. That kind of thing is *basic*.

5. When the kid is doing something that her guardians are clearly not happy with, this isn't the time to tell her that she's cute. No, really. (However, cheers for the person who applauded Ana when she finally picked up what she'd thrown down in a temper tantrum. That was nice.)

Honestly, sometimes I wonder if people learned the same manners I did. Maybe I'm completely out of the loop?

Oh, and another thing - Ana does throw out her garbage. And she does say please, thank you, excuse me, you're welcome, and sorry. She's past two. These are the foundations of American society. They really don't merit surprised comment. Really. I mean, you can comment, but the rest of us will just sit there and wonder how lacking in manners your kids are, so maybe you'd better not.

Comments

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

I'm glad Anna is so easy. I'm glad she's gifted, really I am -- but you look at some kids and they LOOK ok, and they're just not like that. You're putting some expectations on children that just may not be possible.

I'm not excusing bad manners, but I see the difference in all three -- K was like your Anna. My boys? Not like their sister. I'm lucky I can get one of them out of the house. :( And I am the same parent to all three, but my children have varying abilities.

[conuly]

Well, to be fair, she doesn't *consistently* say please, thank you, etc. - but she knows the words, and when we remind her, she says them. I'm not saying "every toddler should use these words", just "when they do, it's not that special". Because it's not. I don't get applauded for saying please. (Though that would make my day, I think.)

As for tapping on the glass - if your kid can't manage not to do that, you need to be there to stop them from doing it. That's basic. If your kid doesn't have that self-control, you need to be the control and keep their grubby hands (all hands are grubby :P) off the poor animal's glass.

Ana's got one n. Because it's ahhhhh-nah, not ann-nuh. Though it has been spelled with two ns before, I chose to ignore that anomoly as a sign that 'dul can't spell.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

God, I think of my baby who can't even TALK past three and think how awful it is he has 'bad manners' and how people treat him like a freak and think he is rude because he won't say please or thank you, and how people wave things in front of him as he cries because they won't give him it because he won't say PLEASE.

You know? My kids may not have perfect manners, but they are kind, decent, compassionate kids. :( I can't believe what a nerve this hit.

And even the other 'not smart' one, hey, even if his manners weren't perfect at three, at four he was feeding the homeless -- I'd rather that than anything else.

[conuly]

*blinks*

I honestly didn't mean anything like that, and I'm sorry. I can see other toddlers, I know they don't all manage those polite words. It's just that Ana does, and it gets tiresome constantly hearing "Wow, she said *blank*!" because it's not a big deal.

*hugs*

I never said anybody's kids aren't kind, decent, or compassionate - when it comes to that, I hardly ever manage a please myself. My requests go like this "can you do something for me? Thanks. Oh, please!" and I get embarassed. Or I say thanks but I say it soft and people don't hear me (and get mad, which gets me mad.... gah)

I don't want to say anything against anybody's kid (except maybe "those who tap on the glass need to not do that, or be stopped from doing it"), just "please don't comment all the time on the kid I'm with, it gets awkward". If you randomly come up and say "oooh, your kid did something polite", I *do* wonder about you - but if your kid doesn't do it, I leave it be.

[sicpuppy.livejournal.com]

Badly raised kids are a complete hate of mine. Im not a kid person at the best of times but when they're not even controlled or disciplined, I really have zero tolerance for them, or, more reasonably, their parents.
Tapping on the glass of an animal's cage is something I've seen a lot of too, with no parent stepping in to say 'thats wrong'. Here, people will let their kids chase the pigeons in the town center, or scream at them or try and stomp on them. I despise that. The pigeons are usually fast enough to get away anyway but I wonder what this teaches the child about respecting life? Not to mention how dirty street pigeons generally are (they carry more disease than a wild rat and yet people still happily let their kids play with them).

I agree on the 'teaching kids to watch where they're going' thing too. I often have little kids run out suddenly infront of me, take a U-turn and nearly crash into me or else generally get in the way. And most of the time the parents are waaaay back in the distance. And yet if I were to shout at the kid or push it aside or if it tripped over me while it was messing about, you can bet I'd be the one in trouble from the guardians. If you're kid orientated and you like children, I see it would be less of a problem (I don't mind if a dog gets in my way, for example, because I love dogs so I can forgive them) but a lot of people really don't like kids, or feel really uncomfortable around them and having one near them, especially if it's behaving badly, is pretty annoying. Me, personally, I don't don't know how to handle kids because I've never really been around young children and they make me uncomfortable. I think people need to bear this in mind when they let their kids run riot.
You're expected to keep a dog on a lead because not everyone likes dogs and it's unfair to let your dog just run up to anyone it chooses, I think the same logic should be applied to children.

But on the flip side, when you see a really nice mannered little kid, it's a lovely thing to see. But I do agree that more and more these days, finding a little kid who remembers their pleases and thankyous is a rarity. When I was young, that was just how it was and how you were raised, no questions asked. Now it's almost a novelty!

[atalantapendrag.livejournal.com]

I'm not much of a kid person either, but a lot of that is because most of the kids I encounter (especially in my apartment complex) are feral little hellions. Ana sounds like a delight, and very well brought up. If more kids were that carefully reared, I'd like them (and the adults they grow into) a lot better.

[wakasplat.livejournal.com]

Here, people will let their kids chase the pigeons in the town center, or scream at them or try and stomp on them. I despise that. The pigeons are usually fast enough to get away anyway but I wonder what this teaches the child about respecting life?

I used to have a neighbor (we shared a wall and a yard) who claimed that her son was exquisitely sensitive to suffering from all life forms because he'd apparently screamed about blood once when trees were being cut down.

This "exquisitely sensitive" son tormented my cat any time he saw her. He had no respect for her at all in any form.

His mother's response was "I can't make him care." She ignored the fact that she and his father made disparaging and dehumanizing (defelinizing?) remarks about my cat every time they saw her. And she ignored the fact that it might be part of a parent's job to make sure their children aren't running around harming animals. I'm not even talking about "tried and failed" here, this was an "I'm not even going to bother trying" situation.

My cat now has a permanent fear of children, knows the word for "kitty" in two languages, and will run far in the opposite direction if she hears it.

[wakasplat.livejournal.com]

(Continued from my last post.)

Of course now I'm realizing how many adults have no respect for my cat. They treat her like a stuffed animal. She was abused before I got her — and therefore finds touch that she doesn't initiate horrifying, and would not tolerate touch until I'd spent a long time not touching her and she realized she could have control over touch-oriented situations — so I have to run interference every time another adult comes in the house and starts cooing over the "cute kitty" with their arms ready to grab her from whatever she's doing and stick her in their faces.

[malantha.livejournal.com]

The last time I went to the nearby aquarium with a couple friends, I was freakin' floored by the number of adults who were banging on the glass. It was hard for me to not give them dirty looks and if I were a more outspoken person I surely would have said something.

[conuly]

You should've - it's really not fair to the poor animals.

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

I spent a lot of time in the local fishstore while I was contemplating getting a job there.

The number of times people (not just kids) tapped on the glass made me see red. And then they'd get pissed when you tell them not to.

"Please don't harass the animals."

"I wanna see them swim around!"

I'll make YOU swim around, you slavering beast.

[maelorin]

manners. self-respect. thinking-first. teaching children.

all been in short supply for a while now. probably a few decades. probably since the 80s.

[pne.livejournal.com]

1. When offering food to a toddler or little kid, please ask the guardian before waving the food in front of the kid's face.

Yes. Yes yes yes.

Especially if the parents are trying to keep certain foods away from the children (say, something like "no gluten or dairy for the first x months to decrease risk of allergy" or even something a bit more widespread such as "no sweets before they're x years old"). Don't try to undercut this strategy by shoving a biscuit into their grubby little hands without asking the parents.

[gingembre.livejournal.com]

On number 4, I will say that I'll give Ana a seat even when it is crowded (if one is offered) mainly because my lap has limited space these days. :-) Though I can fit her when necessary. Also, sometimes she behaves better sitting on her own - less kicking, etc. when she's not in a good mood. So sometimes we'll give her the seat even if it means we stand.

[conuly]

Yeah, you won't see me complaining when people do that. So long as kid and parent don't both get seats when there's no seats to spare.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

I'm glad Anna is so easy. I'm glad she's gifted, really I am -- but you look at some kids and they LOOK ok, and they're just not like that. You're putting some expectations on children that just may not be possible.

I'm not excusing bad manners, but I see the difference in all three -- K was like your Anna. My boys? Not like their sister. I'm lucky I can get one of them out of the house. :( And I am the same parent to all three, but my children have varying abilities.

[conuly]

Well, to be fair, she doesn't *consistently* say please, thank you, etc. - but she knows the words, and when we remind her, she says them. I'm not saying "every toddler should use these words", just "when they do, it's not that special". Because it's not. I don't get applauded for saying please. (Though that would make my day, I think.)

As for tapping on the glass - if your kid can't manage not to do that, you need to be there to stop them from doing it. That's basic. If your kid doesn't have that self-control, you need to be the control and keep their grubby hands (all hands are grubby :P) off the poor animal's glass.

Ana's got one n. Because it's ahhhhh-nah, not ann-nuh. Though it has been spelled with two ns before, I chose to ignore that anomoly as a sign that 'dul can't spell.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

God, I think of my baby who can't even TALK past three and think how awful it is he has 'bad manners' and how people treat him like a freak and think he is rude because he won't say please or thank you, and how people wave things in front of him as he cries because they won't give him it because he won't say PLEASE.

You know? My kids may not have perfect manners, but they are kind, decent, compassionate kids. :( I can't believe what a nerve this hit.

And even the other 'not smart' one, hey, even if his manners weren't perfect at three, at four he was feeding the homeless -- I'd rather that than anything else.

[conuly]

*blinks*

I honestly didn't mean anything like that, and I'm sorry. I can see other toddlers, I know they don't all manage those polite words. It's just that Ana does, and it gets tiresome constantly hearing "Wow, she said *blank*!" because it's not a big deal.

*hugs*

I never said anybody's kids aren't kind, decent, or compassionate - when it comes to that, I hardly ever manage a please myself. My requests go like this "can you do something for me? Thanks. Oh, please!" and I get embarassed. Or I say thanks but I say it soft and people don't hear me (and get mad, which gets me mad.... gah)

I don't want to say anything against anybody's kid (except maybe "those who tap on the glass need to not do that, or be stopped from doing it"), just "please don't comment all the time on the kid I'm with, it gets awkward". If you randomly come up and say "oooh, your kid did something polite", I *do* wonder about you - but if your kid doesn't do it, I leave it be.

[sicpuppy.livejournal.com]

Badly raised kids are a complete hate of mine. Im not a kid person at the best of times but when they're not even controlled or disciplined, I really have zero tolerance for them, or, more reasonably, their parents.
Tapping on the glass of an animal's cage is something I've seen a lot of too, with no parent stepping in to say 'thats wrong'. Here, people will let their kids chase the pigeons in the town center, or scream at them or try and stomp on them. I despise that. The pigeons are usually fast enough to get away anyway but I wonder what this teaches the child about respecting life? Not to mention how dirty street pigeons generally are (they carry more disease than a wild rat and yet people still happily let their kids play with them).

I agree on the 'teaching kids to watch where they're going' thing too. I often have little kids run out suddenly infront of me, take a U-turn and nearly crash into me or else generally get in the way. And most of the time the parents are waaaay back in the distance. And yet if I were to shout at the kid or push it aside or if it tripped over me while it was messing about, you can bet I'd be the one in trouble from the guardians. If you're kid orientated and you like children, I see it would be less of a problem (I don't mind if a dog gets in my way, for example, because I love dogs so I can forgive them) but a lot of people really don't like kids, or feel really uncomfortable around them and having one near them, especially if it's behaving badly, is pretty annoying. Me, personally, I don't don't know how to handle kids because I've never really been around young children and they make me uncomfortable. I think people need to bear this in mind when they let their kids run riot.
You're expected to keep a dog on a lead because not everyone likes dogs and it's unfair to let your dog just run up to anyone it chooses, I think the same logic should be applied to children.

But on the flip side, when you see a really nice mannered little kid, it's a lovely thing to see. But I do agree that more and more these days, finding a little kid who remembers their pleases and thankyous is a rarity. When I was young, that was just how it was and how you were raised, no questions asked. Now it's almost a novelty!

[atalantapendrag.livejournal.com]

I'm not much of a kid person either, but a lot of that is because most of the kids I encounter (especially in my apartment complex) are feral little hellions. Ana sounds like a delight, and very well brought up. If more kids were that carefully reared, I'd like them (and the adults they grow into) a lot better.

[malantha.livejournal.com]

The last time I went to the nearby aquarium with a couple friends, I was freakin' floored by the number of adults who were banging on the glass. It was hard for me to not give them dirty looks and if I were a more outspoken person I surely would have said something.

[conuly]

You should've - it's really not fair to the poor animals.

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

I spent a lot of time in the local fishstore while I was contemplating getting a job there.

The number of times people (not just kids) tapped on the glass made me see red. And then they'd get pissed when you tell them not to.

"Please don't harass the animals."

"I wanna see them swim around!"

I'll make YOU swim around, you slavering beast.

[maelorin]

manners. self-respect. thinking-first. teaching children.

all been in short supply for a while now. probably a few decades. probably since the 80s.

[pne.livejournal.com]

1. When offering food to a toddler or little kid, please ask the guardian before waving the food in front of the kid's face.

Yes. Yes yes yes.

Especially if the parents are trying to keep certain foods away from the children (say, something like "no gluten or dairy for the first x months to decrease risk of allergy" or even something a bit more widespread such as "no sweets before they're x years old"). Don't try to undercut this strategy by shoving a biscuit into their grubby little hands without asking the parents.

[gingembre.livejournal.com]

On number 4, I will say that I'll give Ana a seat even when it is crowded (if one is offered) mainly because my lap has limited space these days. :-) Though I can fit her when necessary. Also, sometimes she behaves better sitting on her own - less kicking, etc. when she's not in a good mood. So sometimes we'll give her the seat even if it means we stand.

[conuly]

Yeah, you won't see me complaining when people do that. So long as kid and parent don't both get seats when there's no seats to spare.