Thoughts on Voldy...

[conuly]

We know that he hates non-purebloods - or, at least, that he hates "mudbloods", to use his term. He certainly allows half-bloods into his organization, but this may be due to a dearth of actual purebloods (query: some sort of genetic illness caused by inbreeding forcing the population to drop? an anathema to large families causing the population to stupidly drop?)

And yet, the Death Eaters are aligned with a number of non-humans (dementors) and part-humans/halfbreeds (werewolves, giants, possibly goblins). We know why these non-humans are aligning with the Death Eaters - they've been badly treated by the Moral Majority (snicker, snicker), but why are the Death Eaters willing to align with them? Anti-human prejudice in the wizarding world is at least as strong as anti-muggle prejudice, isn't it? It certainly seems that way!

Hagrid gets hundreds of letters demanding his resignation after people find out that he's half-giant. Olympe has never revealed this secret, probably wisely. Anti-werewolf laws pass, causing Lupin to lose any chance of a job (query: aside from his deep cover work with the other werewolves, why couldn't he study a bit and get a job in the muggle world?) The centaurs are insulted to their faces by Umbridge, who really ought to be smart enough to know better. I know there's no proof of that, but I like to have some faith in humanity. Non-human sentients aren't subject to their own laws, but instead to the laws set up by humans - at least, that's the implication laid out for us in the books.

The other Death Eaters may view this alignment with non-humans as an expediency - get the giants to do your dirty work, and they'll be a lot more efficient than a bunch of you casting spells around the place. However, Voldemort doesn't seem the type to do this sort of thing for expediency. That's one good thing you can say about him - he's sure fervant. Consider what Slughorn thought - he could go far. If he were willing to pretend to be slightly less evil, he could have had a cushy job in the Ministry eleven years ago, and by now have been well on his way to modifying the wizarding world from within - something which would most likely have been far more effective in the long run than his current plan.

He was smart enough to request a job at Hogwarts, influencing young minds, but... not to give a few white lies, act somewhat moderate, then start modifying the law? Hitler, when he did his evil, didn't do it by starting a gang and attacking everyone, not at first - the first thing he did is get himself elected. And then he didn't immediately build death camps, he started gradually, foot-in-the-door, like. Hitler ultimately lost, yes, but he was far more effective in his time than Voldy appears to be. And it's not that Voldy is a bad liar - indeed, we've seen him lie quite well.

So, the answer must be that he can't even pretend to tolerate muggles and muggleborn wizards. But - then why tolerate the non-humans? No matter how I look at it, it doesn't add up. He doesn't actually need them for his random acts of terror, does he? And he's certainly taking a direct approach. His goal is much farther fetched than simply "Live forever, rule the world". If that were the case, he could just have somebody do the random acts of terror, act the concerned citizen, then Palpatine himself into Dictator-for-life position. And if his life happens to be exceptionally long (surely he can requisition that Philosopher's Stone from that view?), well, a few generations down the line nobody will notice.

*sighs*

I'm sure I'm overthinking this, of course, but I would appreciate some ideas here.

Comments

[erisiansaint]

(I'm coming at you from ohimesamama's LJ, btw, just so you know I'm not a weirdo or anything. Hi.)

My thoughts are that it's much easier to tolerate something that you know hasn't any relation to you. It's the people who remidn us of what we hate in ourselves that need to be wiped out. Dementors? No problem. Giants? He gets to prove himself superior in brains. Just my two cents, without bringing Godwin's Law into it, although the entire Hitler argument fits.

[conuly]

But then, wouldn't he hate half-bloods more than muggleborn wizards? Or possibly inbred freaks more than half-bloods?

And hi! What's that in your icon?

[gisho.livejournal.com]

random lurker here:

Could it be that what he actually respects is purity? He sees the non-human sentients as being true to their natures, and therefore noble and worthy of respect, in a way that "mudbloods" aren't. As for half-bloods, they *have* no 'true nature' to follow, but are instead forced to make a choice and choose the 'nobler' side of it, which is why he allows them to join his side. "Mudbloods" in this analysis would be considered to have the "true nature" of being Muggles who should stick to their own kind. (That's not very logical, but prejudice rarely is.)

He might also despise Muggle society and see non-humans as the furthest extreme away from it, making them an ideal.

If what he respects is purity, he might have been, at least initially, unwilling to be untrue to his principles by lying and working from the inside. Later on he was more desperate and willing to lie, or at least ask his followers to lie for the "greater good", but at least on some level he didn't want to subvert people, and working from outside let him feel he was only bringing them over to the truth.

(Disclaimer: I have not read the first five books since #5 came out, and my facts might be screwy from forgetfulness.)

[conuly]

No, that makes sense. At least it forces some logic onto him (and yeah, I know, prejudice is illogical)

[yadfothgildloc.livejournal.com]

I'm willing to say that he's looking for power, and sees the muggles as incapable of giving it (or rather, enough of it) to him. The Purebloods were willing to back him up either becuase he played to their prejudices or because they had similar goals.

[closingxtime.livejournal.com]

I thought the answer to this was easy. We already know the basis of his hate resides in his father. He had an odd childhood. The was raised without his mother or father, and he resented that and he realized when he was angry or whatever he'd be able to do certain weird things. It caused him to drift towards the 'dark side' of things and when he found out his father left him and his mom, it increased his 'badness'.

I always figured he was trying to compensate by killing all muggles and halfbloods. He figures they're all like his father and (we all know he's fucked up in the head) he wants them to pay. Not very logical, but he's a madman!

(Of course, I'm from hptheories and was just looking at your layout because I'm obsessed with looking at layouts and I saw the post on Voldy and had to read ^.^)

[conuly]

Mudbloods, not half-bloods. And that's fine - but why align himself with non-humans and part-humans like that?

[closingxtime.livejournal.com]

Mudbloods is simply the word of choice when trying to offend, lol. I'm sure you mean Muggle borns? He's got no problem with non-humans and part-humans. It's the ones with muggle blood that he's got beef with.

[conuly]

I'm using his word. Plus, it's easier to type, being less letters.

I recognize that he apparently has no problem with non-humans and part-humans. What I want to know is why. I've read the books. Non-human prejudice is even stronger than prejudice against muggles. So you'd think that his loyal followers would be opposed to allying with non-humans, werewolves, and that ilk. But they do, and there's no sign of resentment about this. Why?

[closingxtime.livejournal.com]

Look at Bellatrix, she worships Voldemort. If Voldemort said he needed her as a sacrafice, she'd do it because that's what he wants her to do and she worships him! I don't know if that's how the others are, but I do know that they're main goal is domination and they know Voldemorts the only one that has the balls and power to succeed so by supporting him and his decisions, they're at the top of the food chain when the ball is in Voldemorts court. Voldemort sees powerful alliances in other creatures like Giants, Trolls, Dementors and possibly some Goblins. He's smarter than that. He knows in order to be powerful he needs an army and what better way to get a powerful army than to gain weapons that the other side doesn't have?

[conuly]

Bellatrix is nuts, and is probably not a good example of your average Death Eater in the street.

And, as I said, if Voldy were so smart, he wouldn't be taking this straight-forward approach to world domination. Hitler didn't just one day build an army and march into Poland, no, first he more subtly pushed his agenda the old fashioned way.

[closingxtime.livejournal.com]

Yes, Bella is a very bad example, lol.

I was simply answering your question as to why he wouldn't be prejudice against the part-humans.

Mind if I add you? I like the way you think! ^.^

[conuly]

I never mind!

The thing is, I think this is just inconsistent writing on JKR's part. But I want to find a book-reason for his prejudice to be so inconsistent - and for the other Death Eaters to go along with it. I know he's powerful, but it's no good being powerful if you have no followers.

[closingxtime.livejournal.com]

I'm sure it'll all unfurl in the last book.

This is how I see it:

Pre-DE status Death Eaters see a powerful wizard, Voldemort. Admire his power and recognize his strength and determination. They'll do anything to be on top, including follow his ridiculous demands.

I don't see the inconsistencies :\

But hey, I'm going to bed now, so we'll finish this tomorrow?

[conuly]

I'm sure it won't, and here tomorrow is today (6 am, baby!), but, hey, sure.

(Connie is rather disappointed in the logical inconsistencies of prejudice. She expects her bigots to be fervant and nuts, not stupid)

[ex-chaos-by-699.livejournal.com]

I know you've thrown out this idea already, but I always did figure it was a matter of expediency. My theory is that he was using the part-humans (or non-humans) for his own purposes, because let's face it, they can do some things that humans can't do (like the Dementors, werewolves, etc). They're already outcasts, so they're easy to recruit. I figured though that if he ever achieved his goal of European domination that he'd screw them over eventually, once his power base is secure.

But all things considered, I never really considered Voldie to be all that bright. Towards the end of OoTP, I started thinking of him as "the Dark Lord who couldn't shoot straight".

[erisiansaint]

(I'm coming at you from ohimesamama's LJ, btw, just so you know I'm not a weirdo or anything. Hi.)

My thoughts are that it's much easier to tolerate something that you know hasn't any relation to you. It's the people who remidn us of what we hate in ourselves that need to be wiped out. Dementors? No problem. Giants? He gets to prove himself superior in brains. Just my two cents, without bringing Godwin's Law into it, although the entire Hitler argument fits.

[conuly]

But then, wouldn't he hate half-bloods more than muggleborn wizards? Or possibly inbred freaks more than half-bloods?

And hi! What's that in your icon?

[gisho.livejournal.com]

random lurker here:

Could it be that what he actually respects is purity? He sees the non-human sentients as being true to their natures, and therefore noble and worthy of respect, in a way that "mudbloods" aren't. As for half-bloods, they *have* no 'true nature' to follow, but are instead forced to make a choice and choose the 'nobler' side of it, which is why he allows them to join his side. "Mudbloods" in this analysis would be considered to have the "true nature" of being Muggles who should stick to their own kind. (That's not very logical, but prejudice rarely is.)

He might also despise Muggle society and see non-humans as the furthest extreme away from it, making them an ideal.

If what he respects is purity, he might have been, at least initially, unwilling to be untrue to his principles by lying and working from the inside. Later on he was more desperate and willing to lie, or at least ask his followers to lie for the "greater good", but at least on some level he didn't want to subvert people, and working from outside let him feel he was only bringing them over to the truth.

(Disclaimer: I have not read the first five books since #5 came out, and my facts might be screwy from forgetfulness.)

[conuly]

No, that makes sense. At least it forces some logic onto him (and yeah, I know, prejudice is illogical)

[yadfothgildloc.livejournal.com]

I'm willing to say that he's looking for power, and sees the muggles as incapable of giving it (or rather, enough of it) to him. The Purebloods were willing to back him up either becuase he played to their prejudices or because they had similar goals.

[closingxtime.livejournal.com]

I thought the answer to this was easy. We already know the basis of his hate resides in his father. He had an odd childhood. The was raised without his mother or father, and he resented that and he realized when he was angry or whatever he'd be able to do certain weird things. It caused him to drift towards the 'dark side' of things and when he found out his father left him and his mom, it increased his 'badness'.

I always figured he was trying to compensate by killing all muggles and halfbloods. He figures they're all like his father and (we all know he's fucked up in the head) he wants them to pay. Not very logical, but he's a madman!

(Of course, I'm from hptheories and was just looking at your layout because I'm obsessed with looking at layouts and I saw the post on Voldy and had to read ^.^)

[conuly]

Mudbloods, not half-bloods. And that's fine - but why align himself with non-humans and part-humans like that?

[closingxtime.livejournal.com]

Mudbloods is simply the word of choice when trying to offend, lol. I'm sure you mean Muggle borns? He's got no problem with non-humans and part-humans. It's the ones with muggle blood that he's got beef with.

[conuly]

I'm using his word. Plus, it's easier to type, being less letters.

I recognize that he apparently has no problem with non-humans and part-humans. What I want to know is why. I've read the books. Non-human prejudice is even stronger than prejudice against muggles. So you'd think that his loyal followers would be opposed to allying with non-humans, werewolves, and that ilk. But they do, and there's no sign of resentment about this. Why?

[closingxtime.livejournal.com]

Look at Bellatrix, she worships Voldemort. If Voldemort said he needed her as a sacrafice, she'd do it because that's what he wants her to do and she worships him! I don't know if that's how the others are, but I do know that they're main goal is domination and they know Voldemorts the only one that has the balls and power to succeed so by supporting him and his decisions, they're at the top of the food chain when the ball is in Voldemorts court. Voldemort sees powerful alliances in other creatures like Giants, Trolls, Dementors and possibly some Goblins. He's smarter than that. He knows in order to be powerful he needs an army and what better way to get a powerful army than to gain weapons that the other side doesn't have?

[conuly]

Bellatrix is nuts, and is probably not a good example of your average Death Eater in the street.

And, as I said, if Voldy were so smart, he wouldn't be taking this straight-forward approach to world domination. Hitler didn't just one day build an army and march into Poland, no, first he more subtly pushed his agenda the old fashioned way.

[closingxtime.livejournal.com]

Yes, Bella is a very bad example, lol.

I was simply answering your question as to why he wouldn't be prejudice against the part-humans.

Mind if I add you? I like the way you think! ^.^

[conuly]

I never mind!

The thing is, I think this is just inconsistent writing on JKR's part. But I want to find a book-reason for his prejudice to be so inconsistent - and for the other Death Eaters to go along with it. I know he's powerful, but it's no good being powerful if you have no followers.

[closingxtime.livejournal.com]

I'm sure it'll all unfurl in the last book.

This is how I see it:

Pre-DE status Death Eaters see a powerful wizard, Voldemort. Admire his power and recognize his strength and determination. They'll do anything to be on top, including follow his ridiculous demands.

I don't see the inconsistencies :\

But hey, I'm going to bed now, so we'll finish this tomorrow?

[conuly]

I'm sure it won't, and here tomorrow is today (6 am, baby!), but, hey, sure.

(Connie is rather disappointed in the logical inconsistencies of prejudice. She expects her bigots to be fervant and nuts, not stupid)

[ex-chaos-by-699.livejournal.com]

I know you've thrown out this idea already, but I always did figure it was a matter of expediency. My theory is that he was using the part-humans (or non-humans) for his own purposes, because let's face it, they can do some things that humans can't do (like the Dementors, werewolves, etc). They're already outcasts, so they're easy to recruit. I figured though that if he ever achieved his goal of European domination that he'd screw them over eventually, once his power base is secure.

But all things considered, I never really considered Voldie to be all that bright. Towards the end of OoTP, I started thinking of him as "the Dark Lord who couldn't shoot straight".

[skull-bearer.livejournal.com]

Take a good look at Voldemort, does he /look/ human to you?

[skull-bearer.livejournal.com]

Take a good look at Voldemort, does he /look/ human to you?