Scary thought I had today....

[conuly]

In popular sci-fi, humans are often the driving force behind the universe. Monsters and supernatural beings that have destroyed hundreds of sentient species will realize that they're "rather attached to those strange humans". Humans will repeatedly conquer invincible foes, and triumph against insurmountable odds. Often, you see otherwise intelligent people reverting to saying "as the humans say" to express a concept instead of "as the bariaga say" or even using a term from their own culture. The Q put the Enterprise on trial for "humanity's crimes" even when many people on the ship weren't human - nobody else mattered.

In short, humans are the marysues of the universe.

Just kill me now.

Comments

[ladyshrew.livejournal.com]

Yup.

*pimp hat*

[azarias.livejournal.com]

Pick up a copy of C.J. Cherryh's The Pride of Chanur, if you haven't already. The only thing humans are a driving force for there is a migraine condition for the heroes.

Re: *pimp hat*

[conuly]

Are they the only migraine condition for the heroes? Because that's not much better.

Re: *pimp hat*

[azarias.livejournal.com]

No. Mostly it's internal politics in a trade compact causing it. The humans were just used as an excuse, though there's the very valid notion that the discovery of an entirely new, space-faring species would lead to squabbling over trade rights and renegotiation of treaties.

Basically, you have Pyanfar Chanur and her crew, who are prosperous hani merchants -- hani being one of four oxygen-breathing species and seven (or six, depending on who you ask) total species of the Compact, all of whom are out for themselves and most of whom are politely hostile with one another. One day in port in the middle of a successful trade run, this thing gets aboard The Pride due to Pyanfar not waking up on the paranoid side of the bed that morning. It's big, smelly, funny-shaped, and makes weird noises, and Pyanfar just about shoots it in the head until she realizes that it's writing numbers (on the floor, in its own blood, which is a cool scene). She proceeds on the cautious assumption that it's at least semi-sentient, and trouble ensues because there are kif involved, and hani hate kif while kif see hani as a meal waiting to happen.

Re: *pimp hat*

[joeymew.livejournal.com]

You just gave me warm fuzzy rabid flashbacks of my childhood, because my parents read that book to me before I could even read =D I should go find it and read it now.

Re: *pimp hat*

[l33tminion]

Yet another book for the list...

Re: *pimp hat*

[azarias.livejournal.com]

Go ahead and add any Cherryh s.f. written before the mid 1990s. I find her fantasy generally weak, and her newer s.f. has that "written for profit" quality of recycled themes and so-so writing (though her so-so writing is also better than most of what's on the market). Her earlier s.f. that I've read so far is uniformly grand.

The Pride has sequels, but the novel is complete whether you read them or not; it's also tangentially related to her Alliance/Union novels, if you want to find out just what the humans are up to in their own space. The characters in The Pride (even the human, really) don't know what's going on there, either, and don't care much, so it's fine if you don't.

Re: *pimp hat*

[azarias.livejournal.com]

Also, I'm fond of 50s-era nuclear scare S.F. where the message is

Dear Humans,

Stop sucking right now or we're blowing you up. We Mean It.

Love,
The Aliens

[scottrossi.livejournal.com]

hahaha i have been noticing that alot too. you might like the Uplift Series by David Brin. he makes humans insignificant and endangered for a while, then he makes light of our better qualities, while making us no less endangered, possibly moreso. i am not going to give away plot points anymore.

but its also cool because he feels that dolphins are already intelligent, kinda like lazy poets, and that after a small amount of genetic "nudging" their next generation is comparable and even better than ours, and they even build and crew their own starship. its really a good storyline, you might like it. its 6 novels long and supposedly there are another 3 or 4 coming out! woo hoo! :D

[l33tminion]

I've read Startide Rising, which is in the middle of that series. I still need to read the rest of those...

[scottrossi.livejournal.com]

its really good. actually, first time through, i started with startide rising as well, because the first one was about the genesis of earth-xt contact, and i didnt think too much of it. the last 5 are the better IMO.

[hopefulnebula]

...except much less pretty.

[sporks5000.livejournal.com]

are you saying that you expect even for a moment for any genre of writing to not in some way be human-centric?

Hard bet, seeing as it's all written by humans.

And yes, it's botherede me too, but I've just learned to ignore it.

[conuly]

It's not that I don't want it to be human-centric, I just don't want humans to be marysues!

[sporks5000.livejournal.com]

I hate to say it, but it looks like you're going to have to write your own science fiction, then.

[conuly]

Sucks, seeing as how I don't like my writing.

[sporks5000.livejournal.com]

I'm sure your writing is wonderful. you'll have to show it to me.

The worst thing that'll happen is I'll write you a several page critique.

[dkmnow.livejournal.com]

The unspoken rule of human morality, translated:

"The worthiness of your existence is directly proportional to your ability to plausibly emulate a slightly less "perfect" version my own fairy-tale idealization of myself, while simultaneously concealing any and all evidence of the charade"?

What percentage of human behavior toils in absolute slavery to this single rule?

("YMMV")

[mhari.livejournal.com]

There's also Cherryh's Faded Sun, where humans are more prominent than they are in Chanur but still definitely not the stars. Even the sympathetic aliens don't have much use for them. :)

[morganne13.livejournal.com]

The Farseer and Ship series's serieses(is there a decently pronouncable plural for series?)bleh trilogys by Robin Hobb are interesting because while through most of them humans are prominent, dragons are retaking their places as lords and masters and humans are all like "but why should we be inferior?" I think the dragons are basically like "because you are." And someone else points out that why should humans be superior anyways and that humanity should learn some humility. Its not the focus of the book but it is a point i hadn't really thought of before I read it. And the people kind of sitting there sputtering going eh? was funny.

Also in S.L. Viehl's Stardoc series, the main character is human, but most of the other characters are aliens of some sort and the humans mainly come off looking stupid and bigoted and small with very few exceptions.

[conuly]

1. Series.
2. For distinguishing characteristics, try "serials".

[sporks5000.livejournal.com]

What has always bothered me is that every other race seems to be portrayed as having personalities that only cover a meere sliver of the vast array of human emotions.

You'll especially see it in Fantasy. Elves are always aloof and dwarves are always bitter, world weary, and ready for a good fight. There's no such thing as a good goblin - they're either evil or snivling.

Argh!

[ladyshrew.livejournal.com]

Yup.

*pimp hat*

[azarias.livejournal.com]

Pick up a copy of C.J. Cherryh's The Pride of Chanur, if you haven't already. The only thing humans are a driving force for there is a migraine condition for the heroes.

Re: *pimp hat*

[conuly]

Are they the only migraine condition for the heroes? Because that's not much better.

Re: *pimp hat*

[azarias.livejournal.com]

No. Mostly it's internal politics in a trade compact causing it. The humans were just used as an excuse, though there's the very valid notion that the discovery of an entirely new, space-faring species would lead to squabbling over trade rights and renegotiation of treaties.

Basically, you have Pyanfar Chanur and her crew, who are prosperous hani merchants -- hani being one of four oxygen-breathing species and seven (or six, depending on who you ask) total species of the Compact, all of whom are out for themselves and most of whom are politely hostile with one another. One day in port in the middle of a successful trade run, this thing gets aboard The Pride due to Pyanfar not waking up on the paranoid side of the bed that morning. It's big, smelly, funny-shaped, and makes weird noises, and Pyanfar just about shoots it in the head until she realizes that it's writing numbers (on the floor, in its own blood, which is a cool scene). She proceeds on the cautious assumption that it's at least semi-sentient, and trouble ensues because there are kif involved, and hani hate kif while kif see hani as a meal waiting to happen.

Re: *pimp hat*

[joeymew.livejournal.com]

You just gave me warm fuzzy rabid flashbacks of my childhood, because my parents read that book to me before I could even read =D I should go find it and read it now.

Re: *pimp hat*

[l33tminion]

Yet another book for the list...

Re: *pimp hat*

[azarias.livejournal.com]

Go ahead and add any Cherryh s.f. written before the mid 1990s. I find her fantasy generally weak, and her newer s.f. has that "written for profit" quality of recycled themes and so-so writing (though her so-so writing is also better than most of what's on the market). Her earlier s.f. that I've read so far is uniformly grand.

The Pride has sequels, but the novel is complete whether you read them or not; it's also tangentially related to her Alliance/Union novels, if you want to find out just what the humans are up to in their own space. The characters in The Pride (even the human, really) don't know what's going on there, either, and don't care much, so it's fine if you don't.

Re: *pimp hat*

[azarias.livejournal.com]

Also, I'm fond of 50s-era nuclear scare S.F. where the message is

Dear Humans,

Stop sucking right now or we're blowing you up. We Mean It.

Love,
The Aliens

[scottrossi.livejournal.com]

hahaha i have been noticing that alot too. you might like the Uplift Series by David Brin. he makes humans insignificant and endangered for a while, then he makes light of our better qualities, while making us no less endangered, possibly moreso. i am not going to give away plot points anymore.

but its also cool because he feels that dolphins are already intelligent, kinda like lazy poets, and that after a small amount of genetic "nudging" their next generation is comparable and even better than ours, and they even build and crew their own starship. its really a good storyline, you might like it. its 6 novels long and supposedly there are another 3 or 4 coming out! woo hoo! :D

[l33tminion]

I've read Startide Rising, which is in the middle of that series. I still need to read the rest of those...

[scottrossi.livejournal.com]

its really good. actually, first time through, i started with startide rising as well, because the first one was about the genesis of earth-xt contact, and i didnt think too much of it. the last 5 are the better IMO.

[hopefulnebula]

...except much less pretty.

[sporks5000.livejournal.com]

are you saying that you expect even for a moment for any genre of writing to not in some way be human-centric?

Hard bet, seeing as it's all written by humans.

And yes, it's botherede me too, but I've just learned to ignore it.

[conuly]

It's not that I don't want it to be human-centric, I just don't want humans to be marysues!

[sporks5000.livejournal.com]

I hate to say it, but it looks like you're going to have to write your own science fiction, then.

[conuly]

Sucks, seeing as how I don't like my writing.

[sporks5000.livejournal.com]

I'm sure your writing is wonderful. you'll have to show it to me.

The worst thing that'll happen is I'll write you a several page critique.

[dkmnow.livejournal.com]

The unspoken rule of human morality, translated:

"The worthiness of your existence is directly proportional to your ability to plausibly emulate a slightly less "perfect" version my own fairy-tale idealization of myself, while simultaneously concealing any and all evidence of the charade"?

What percentage of human behavior toils in absolute slavery to this single rule?

("YMMV")

[mhari.livejournal.com]

There's also Cherryh's Faded Sun, where humans are more prominent than they are in Chanur but still definitely not the stars. Even the sympathetic aliens don't have much use for them. :)

[morganne13.livejournal.com]

The Farseer and Ship series's serieses(is there a decently pronouncable plural for series?)bleh trilogys by Robin Hobb are interesting because while through most of them humans are prominent, dragons are retaking their places as lords and masters and humans are all like "but why should we be inferior?" I think the dragons are basically like "because you are." And someone else points out that why should humans be superior anyways and that humanity should learn some humility. Its not the focus of the book but it is a point i hadn't really thought of before I read it. And the people kind of sitting there sputtering going eh? was funny.

Also in S.L. Viehl's Stardoc series, the main character is human, but most of the other characters are aliens of some sort and the humans mainly come off looking stupid and bigoted and small with very few exceptions.

[conuly]

1. Series.
2. For distinguishing characteristics, try "serials".

[sporks5000.livejournal.com]

What has always bothered me is that every other race seems to be portrayed as having personalities that only cover a meere sliver of the vast array of human emotions.

You'll especially see it in Fantasy. Elves are always aloof and dwarves are always bitter, world weary, and ready for a good fight. There's no such thing as a good goblin - they're either evil or snivling.

Argh!