See, some of my friends have wondered why people sign up for the military.

[conuly]

This is why. Because the military aggressively recruits to teenagers - who, let's face it, are slightly more likely to tend towards the naive side of things. Because it would be un-American to teach kids to weigh commercials and recruiting, or to see when they're being oh-so-subtly coerced. Because the military presents itself as an option - sometimes, they only option - for kids in poor areas, who aren't likely to go to college and probably can't get a good job, not unless they join up.

Comments

[lakidaa.livejournal.com]

They come to my school all the time-- in fact, yesterday they brought one of their attack dogs (who was sweet and so cute and such a nice puppy! eeee. :D). It was nice, showing the alternatives to being a grunt, but I'm never going to join. It's not only impractical for me, but I have a severe problem with my personal space being invaded. That, and all of those sexual scandals. Mmmmyeah.

[leora.livejournal.com]

Not that surprisingly, both given the year and my school, the military did not make its presence known at my school.

The article lists many factors, but there are others. The main one being - what else is a poor kid to do? You're approaching the end of high school, there's a decent chance you've been told you can't afford to go to college... apparently, there's a decent chance you can't. You may get told things like we were: This is how much the government thinks you can afford to contribute, this is how much we will give you, this is how much is left over between the two, because we can't afford to give you even the amount the government says you qualify for due to need.

California schools are a mess. And I'd imagine the high school degrees aren't looked upon that well.

There are families that kick the kids out at 18.

So, where do you go? You don't have a decent job that can truly support yourself, you don't have an education, and you need a place to live. So, the military at least provides for the basics, until you die.

[conuly]

I rather cynically believe that the FAFSA is designed not to pay enough for college, just so that people are more likely to sign up with the armed forces.

[lakidaa.livejournal.com]

My brother's in the Air Force, and he's learned how to fix planes.

He could get a civilian job doing that, but he's better paid and insured (and gets a house with daycare, ect,ect) than if he was.

The forces can teach you some advanced skills (Doctor, Engineer, Piloting, some otherstuff.) that are useable out of the forces.

The Army/Marines/Navy/Air Force can be a good way to better oneself, both externally (job skills), and internally (mostly discipline). some people are just made for it, some have to do it (it's like prostitution in that regard...freaky.), and some people were never really meant to do it.

[dreamkin.livejournal.com]

Hi there,

I just wanted to apologise about my unauthorsied posting of advertising for charity Discworld Teeshirts in book_icons on Monday night. I realise it was rude of me not to ask permission first, and thanks for being so polite and explaining why you removed the post.

I hope there is no lasting bad feeling about this.

Natalie

[conuly]

I'm not still mad, no. And if you want to post icons there, or requests, or authorized ads, you're more than welcome to. *yawns* Me tired. I'd go to bed, except I just got up.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

http://www.militaryfreezone.org/

A good resource for teens or anyone who knows teens.

Also, I know where to get CO peer training -- I may go even though my peers, technically, aren't going, but I know enough people young enough that my taking CO training might be worth it.

(http://www.powellhouse.org/cgi/pohocalendar.cgi#8) Enlistment Issues conference.

[theshiversbaby.livejournal.com]

Ugh, the military. Don't get me started. Anyone who doesn't understand that the military is a killing machine and thus is not going to spend precious funding on bettering your quality of life as an enlisted needs a long, hard wake-up call.

The part about the military being, at times, the only option for poorer kids hits hard, though. I don't know how much times have changed in this respect, but I do know that joining the military (at age...16?) was the only thing that got my grandfather out of abject poverty. Had he not joined, I'd probably be living in the mountains of eastern Kentucky today, where many of my relatives who remain there have no running water. In very rural areas, joining the military is often your ONLY chance of ever escaping (should you desire to "escape"). I doubt it's quite as bad in inner city areas in larger cities, because at least then you have ready access to social programs, scholarships, schools, etc. Then again, I'd be interested to hear perspectives from people who have first- or second-hand experience of poor urban life.

[leora.livejournal.com]

I don't have experience, but something that may tip the balance in urban areas is that if you already have friends dying from gang fights or whatnot, then the military doesn't seem as bad. Go to organized war or live with unorganized war...

I really wish everyone had better options. And I agree with the comment about how in many cases the military is the best option available for acquiring various skills - this is why I feel US education needs to improve and expand. We should be giving our kids the ability to learn the job skills they can use. They should not need to risk their lives just to acquire job skills. It should be a right.

[lizziey.livejournal.com]

odd, since once chris is done his BCT, i not only have a place to live, but i also have the free child care so I can go to school (which i really need, just ask connie. i miss school), and free schooling, oh, and did i mention that place to live is quite nice? oh, yeah, and my husband has a job that is definately not going to be downsized anytime soon, and thus him losing it...oh, yeha, and if he re-enlists for many years, like a LOT of people do (coming from ana army family on my farters side) our children also get free college educations...oh, yeah, and even with him in training now, the baby and i have medical covereage, which is MUCH better than the shitty medicaid we were on.

[conuly]

IF you go to school, you know I'm nothing but happy for you.

I heard that Seth's stopped talking. That's serious. Have you considered signing at him? Not using ASL necessarily (though that'd be nice) but just helping him a bit?

[lizziey.livejournal.com]

yeah, he's a bit behind on the speech lately. he does have signs, ones that basically only i understand, but they work. :), there is also the fact that he very rarely speaks even what words he does say in public.

[conuly]

You might want to add a few more signs to his repetoire. By which I mean *your* repetoire. Start using them when you speak, y'know?

[lizziey.livejournal.com]

well, we have tha basic baby ones..up, etc. but he does a motion for both eat and cup (they are different motions, do wish i'd see teh eat one more...), want, hug, kiss, "no, that toy", and a couple others i can;t think of right now.

[conuly]

What about "come here/go there", "give me/give you/give him", "outside", "dog", "I'm tired", "all done", "it hurts", or... well, the list goes on and on and on.

I can find a few sites, if you like. Heck, I'll even move beyond ASL, you can do a little improv. The important thing is the communication, not *how* you're communicating. If there seems to be a long-term problem, then you can worry about that later.

[lizziey.livejournal.com]

well give me is basically "want" he doesn;t have a sign for doggie cuz he actually sasys it (koggy, hurts is crying.

[codeman38.livejournal.com]

Argh. And I thought the whole part about military recruitment in Fahrenheit 9/11 was insane... it really is ridiculous how aggressive they are.

I thought the incessant phone calls I kept getting from recruiters back in high school (at least they usually had the courtesy to hang up once they realized that I could barely even communicate over the phone!) were bad enough. Really, what part of "I'm not interested" don't they understand? -_-

[xiggaroo.livejournal.com]

They came to Avalon once. Oh god that was funny.

Yeah, they didn't stay long.

[bridgetester.livejournal.com]

Story?

[xandiwillflailx.livejournal.com]

well, i think thats a little misrepresented since a lot of people use the military in ORDER to get money for college, not just because they aren't going. lets face it, they give you a lot of good stuff. just....the fighting and killing, not so great.

[lizziey.livejournal.com]

and some people join to be able to support their family, even when there are other choices. or because they haev ALWAYS wanted to be in the army...or becasue the girl they marry happens to have a paternal family curse where every female has married an army guy...

[lakidaa.livejournal.com]

They come to my school all the time-- in fact, yesterday they brought one of their attack dogs (who was sweet and so cute and such a nice puppy! eeee. :D). It was nice, showing the alternatives to being a grunt, but I'm never going to join. It's not only impractical for me, but I have a severe problem with my personal space being invaded. That, and all of those sexual scandals. Mmmmyeah.

[leora.livejournal.com]

Not that surprisingly, both given the year and my school, the military did not make its presence known at my school.

The article lists many factors, but there are others. The main one being - what else is a poor kid to do? You're approaching the end of high school, there's a decent chance you've been told you can't afford to go to college... apparently, there's a decent chance you can't. You may get told things like we were: This is how much the government thinks you can afford to contribute, this is how much we will give you, this is how much is left over between the two, because we can't afford to give you even the amount the government says you qualify for due to need.

California schools are a mess. And I'd imagine the high school degrees aren't looked upon that well.

There are families that kick the kids out at 18.

So, where do you go? You don't have a decent job that can truly support yourself, you don't have an education, and you need a place to live. So, the military at least provides for the basics, until you die.

[conuly]

I rather cynically believe that the FAFSA is designed not to pay enough for college, just so that people are more likely to sign up with the armed forces.

[lakidaa.livejournal.com]

My brother's in the Air Force, and he's learned how to fix planes.

He could get a civilian job doing that, but he's better paid and insured (and gets a house with daycare, ect,ect) than if he was.

The forces can teach you some advanced skills (Doctor, Engineer, Piloting, some otherstuff.) that are useable out of the forces.

The Army/Marines/Navy/Air Force can be a good way to better oneself, both externally (job skills), and internally (mostly discipline). some people are just made for it, some have to do it (it's like prostitution in that regard...freaky.), and some people were never really meant to do it.

[dreamkin.livejournal.com]

Hi there,

I just wanted to apologise about my unauthorsied posting of advertising for charity Discworld Teeshirts in book_icons on Monday night. I realise it was rude of me not to ask permission first, and thanks for being so polite and explaining why you removed the post.

I hope there is no lasting bad feeling about this.

Natalie

[conuly]

I'm not still mad, no. And if you want to post icons there, or requests, or authorized ads, you're more than welcome to. *yawns* Me tired. I'd go to bed, except I just got up.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

http://www.militaryfreezone.org/

A good resource for teens or anyone who knows teens.

Also, I know where to get CO peer training -- I may go even though my peers, technically, aren't going, but I know enough people young enough that my taking CO training might be worth it.

(http://www.powellhouse.org/cgi/pohocalendar.cgi#8) Enlistment Issues conference.

[theshiversbaby.livejournal.com]

Ugh, the military. Don't get me started. Anyone who doesn't understand that the military is a killing machine and thus is not going to spend precious funding on bettering your quality of life as an enlisted needs a long, hard wake-up call.

The part about the military being, at times, the only option for poorer kids hits hard, though. I don't know how much times have changed in this respect, but I do know that joining the military (at age...16?) was the only thing that got my grandfather out of abject poverty. Had he not joined, I'd probably be living in the mountains of eastern Kentucky today, where many of my relatives who remain there have no running water. In very rural areas, joining the military is often your ONLY chance of ever escaping (should you desire to "escape"). I doubt it's quite as bad in inner city areas in larger cities, because at least then you have ready access to social programs, scholarships, schools, etc. Then again, I'd be interested to hear perspectives from people who have first- or second-hand experience of poor urban life.

[leora.livejournal.com]

I don't have experience, but something that may tip the balance in urban areas is that if you already have friends dying from gang fights or whatnot, then the military doesn't seem as bad. Go to organized war or live with unorganized war...

I really wish everyone had better options. And I agree with the comment about how in many cases the military is the best option available for acquiring various skills - this is why I feel US education needs to improve and expand. We should be giving our kids the ability to learn the job skills they can use. They should not need to risk their lives just to acquire job skills. It should be a right.

[lizziey.livejournal.com]

odd, since once chris is done his BCT, i not only have a place to live, but i also have the free child care so I can go to school (which i really need, just ask connie. i miss school), and free schooling, oh, and did i mention that place to live is quite nice? oh, yeah, and my husband has a job that is definately not going to be downsized anytime soon, and thus him losing it...oh, yeha, and if he re-enlists for many years, like a LOT of people do (coming from ana army family on my farters side) our children also get free college educations...oh, yeah, and even with him in training now, the baby and i have medical covereage, which is MUCH better than the shitty medicaid we were on.

[conuly]

IF you go to school, you know I'm nothing but happy for you.

I heard that Seth's stopped talking. That's serious. Have you considered signing at him? Not using ASL necessarily (though that'd be nice) but just helping him a bit?

[lizziey.livejournal.com]

yeah, he's a bit behind on the speech lately. he does have signs, ones that basically only i understand, but they work. :), there is also the fact that he very rarely speaks even what words he does say in public.

[conuly]

You might want to add a few more signs to his repetoire. By which I mean *your* repetoire. Start using them when you speak, y'know?

[lizziey.livejournal.com]

well, we have tha basic baby ones..up, etc. but he does a motion for both eat and cup (they are different motions, do wish i'd see teh eat one more...), want, hug, kiss, "no, that toy", and a couple others i can;t think of right now.

[conuly]

What about "come here/go there", "give me/give you/give him", "outside", "dog", "I'm tired", "all done", "it hurts", or... well, the list goes on and on and on.

I can find a few sites, if you like. Heck, I'll even move beyond ASL, you can do a little improv. The important thing is the communication, not *how* you're communicating. If there seems to be a long-term problem, then you can worry about that later.

[lizziey.livejournal.com]

well give me is basically "want" he doesn;t have a sign for doggie cuz he actually sasys it (koggy, hurts is crying.

[codeman38.livejournal.com]

Argh. And I thought the whole part about military recruitment in Fahrenheit 9/11 was insane... it really is ridiculous how aggressive they are.

I thought the incessant phone calls I kept getting from recruiters back in high school (at least they usually had the courtesy to hang up once they realized that I could barely even communicate over the phone!) were bad enough. Really, what part of "I'm not interested" don't they understand? -_-

[xiggaroo.livejournal.com]

They came to Avalon once. Oh god that was funny.

Yeah, they didn't stay long.

[bridgetester.livejournal.com]

Story?

[xandiwillflailx.livejournal.com]

well, i think thats a little misrepresented since a lot of people use the military in ORDER to get money for college, not just because they aren't going. lets face it, they give you a lot of good stuff. just....the fighting and killing, not so great.

[lizziey.livejournal.com]

and some people join to be able to support their family, even when there are other choices. or because they haev ALWAYS wanted to be in the army...or becasue the girl they marry happens to have a paternal family curse where every female has married an army guy...