Two WTF links.
Mar. 10th, 2005 02:02 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
conuly
One on ducks....
And one on women and sports.
I have read many great articles by Christian men and women regarding the participation of women in the workforce, politics, and in the military. These are activities that most women didn’t participate in until fifty years ago. However, I feel there is one other major activity these writers have not addressed. For some reason, they've overlooked women’s participation in sports.
They have? Huh. Interesting. It's probably because, in reality, sports aren't that important.
For quite a long time, women resisted the feminist call to play sports, since they just weren’t interested like men were.
Not all men are interested. And I'm fairly certain that many women are. Not that I know, I place myself firmly in the "no thanks" category. Too many people, too little coordination.
But this didn't sit well with the feminists; they felt this was the fault of male oppression.
Well, I wouldn't call it oppression, exactly. But budgeting a lot of money for guy's teams, and none for the girls? That's unfair. In fact, in many of these cases there doesn't seem, mihi, to be a reason that the teams can't be co-ed. And they're not. So maybe it's not oppression, but it's deliberately limiting options - for both genders (and that's all they recognize, so hush).
In the name of “equality,” feminist leaders poked and prodded and pushed women to join the games, until women in droves finally succumbed to the pressure.
Equality doesn't get quotes, sweetie.
Aside from that, let me see. Feminists poke governments to be more equal, and women start joining teams. Did feminists ever badger anybody to join a sports team? Do people really succumb to the peer pressure of what is, apparently, a tiny majority (it almost must be if this article is remotely accurate... *dramatic eyeroll*)?
I think this should give us strong reason to pause and consider the question, “Should women participate in sports?”
I think that should give us strong reason to pause and consider the question, "Should schools teach basic logic and reasoning skills?"
Over the years I’ve noticed that Christian parents, as much as any parents, encourage their daughters to participate in sports.
Yay.
This is all the rage in our public schools, especially since the passage of Title IX by the feminists.
By Congress, sweetie.
Since most Christian parents send their children to the public schools, it doesn’t surprise many of us that Christians are influenced more by the secular school culture than by the culture of the Church.
The Church has one culture? Since when?
Worse, the Church itself is being more heavily influenced by the culture instead of the other way around. One of the trends in schools is the participation in sports by women; therefore it shouldn’t surprise us that so many Christian daughters today participate in sports. But is this really all that bad?
Oh, not like we don't know where you're going with this one. I can't even snark, it's so obvious....
For those of us who believe we should train our daughters according to Titus 2, 1 Peter 3, and other Biblical passages, my answer is “Yes, it is not good.”
I love "other Biblical passages" being too inconsequential to even name. Hey, who wants to help me search the Bible for passages which refute those?
I propose that sports greatly hinders the development of godly, Biblical, feminine character.
You would, wouldn't you.
Parents today expend extraordinary amounts of time and energy taking their daughters from one sports event to another, week after week, even to the point where it exhausts the family and family resources.
They do this to their sons as well.
The fruits we see are that today’s Christian women are often ill-prepared to be Biblically obedient wives and mothers.
Yes, but they're definitely prepared to lift heavy loads, like groceries and children.
This brings to mind a couple of questions: “Why do we spend so much time preparing our daughters to play sports?" and "What does it prepare them for in the future?” My answer is that sports prepare women to be more like men. Instead of spending all that time preparing our daughters as the Bible directs, we are training them to be like men so they can better compete with men in traditionally masculine roles - i.e., compete with them in the workforce, in politics, in the military, and in sports.
I thought the Bible's advice on child-rearing was limited to "spare the rod" (and you see what happened to his son!)
Actually, I don’t have a problem with women playing recreational sports on an occasional basis, just with them playing competitive sports on a regular day-to-day basis.
Um, okay...?
This rigorous physical and mental training tends to make women more masculine.
Notice he has yet to define those words masculine and feminine. How clever of him. By leaving them undefined, he can attack anything that sports do to women and say "see, more masculine!"
I think it is prudent to often ask ourselves “Can a woman do this activity and retain a Biblically feminine character?”
I think it's prudent to often ask ourselves "Can I post this without sounding like an idiot? Should I have opted for the course in logic instead of the one in rigid theology?"
With sports I think it will be difficult in most cases. Even some of the traditionally more feminine sports like gymnastics and ice skating are now influencing women to be more masculine.
And, again, no definition of this term.
The Bible talks about women developing a quiet and gentle spirit; I think sports fosters anything but that.
I think this, I think that. I think the sky is green, but I have no evidence. Why should we believe you because of what you think? Where's the evidence? Sheesh, forget logic, this guy needs a course in basic essay writing.
As for a quiet and gentle spirit, I'll agree that sports generally do not seem to foster that spirit - on the playing field. I don't doubt, however, that people act differently on-field and off.
They instead develop a competitive and contentious spirit that will cause them to have great difficulty in their marriages
And the evidence for this is...? If he had any, he'd've presented it, showing us one family or another who has suffered.
I already mentioned that the effort expended on sports will hinder the development of wifely duties around the home; even worse is when a man has to compete against his own wife in the workplace and community.
Mentioned, but did not prove. And using this sports metaphor, people don't often compete against their teammates. Why would they compete against their teammate in life, that is, their spouse?
We have a nation filled with weak men and disorderly women.
Proof of this would be...?
Much of the disorderliness among women comes from feminist influences and activities like competitive sports.
I love how he never proves anything. I'd say that competitive sports are very likely to decrease disorderliness, due to the complexity which appears to be involved.
Most men I know admire a woman who is reasonably healthy and fit; they are also attracted to a woman who is somewhat “soft” and cuddly. This does not mean she should be delicate like tissue paper; no, a woman should be reasonably strong, and the normal duties of life will make her that way.
Great. Do we care what you're attracted to?
However, if you look at pictures of female athletes who play sports or observe them on the playing fields, you will notice that many develop strong, muscular bodies.
And...?
Female athletes also sneer, wince, push, and fight just like the men.
*snickers* Guess he never noticed that female people do that anyway, with or without sports. And so do male people, and people people.
The sneers are most obvious; they make young women very unfeminine. The masculine uniforms and sweaty bodies aren’t very attractive, either.
Back to me asking why we should care.
I also notice when driving by our public school grounds and sports fields another phenomenon taking place: the young girls are trained in sports right along with the boys.
Yay!
To me, this can only be degrading to the boys.
It can? Gee, I never knew guys were so senstive. It just makes me wanna cry. *sniffles*
In some cases, girls regularly participate on boys' sports teams, and therefore compete against the boys themselves.
OH NO!!!!!111
During the past decade, more and more girls participated in wrestling; since there were no girls' wrestling teams, they joined the boys' teams and competed against the boys.
Just as well, it kept all those nice, straight boys from having to grope other guys. No doubt that would make them hoomoos.
I read about one school where the boys refused to wrestle the girls and forfeited their matches
Wimps.
there could be no greater embarrassment to them than to lose to a girl
Sexist wimps.
not to mention it likely violated their sense of masculine chivalry.
Yeah, right. *cracks up*
So not only is female sports participation degrading the feminine nature of women, in many cases it degrades the developing masculinity in boys.
I'd say it teaches them that they live in a species made up of more than one type of person, but whatever.
At the recent summer Olympics in Greece, women’s wrestling was a new sport. There were several female wrestlers on the U.S. Olympic team; most of them received their training by wrestling with men in college, since there were no women’s teams. If you saw their pictures, they looked just like men smashing each other into the mats. Women’s handball was another sport that I’d never seen before, and the pictures I saw of the women fighting each other were sometimes grotesque. Similarly aggressive sports are women’s hockey, boxing, football, rugby, and others where oftentimes the women pretty much look and act like men. But even the less aggressive but more common sports like soccer, basketball, and softball tend to make women masculine and manly.
Blah, blah, blah. Is this guy so caught up on appearances? Well, he must be, he defines people by their genitalia...
Agonistic masculine play was the origin of civilization. (this is quote)
It was? I thought that the source of civilization was, like, farming or something.
Because sports provide an initiation into masculinity, they can easily become a religion. (this is also a quote, from a block of quoted text)
So, nobody should participate in sports, right?
Sports are often the way the boy puts away the soft, sheltering world of the mother and her femininity and enters the world of challenge and danger that makes him a man. (more quotey goodness)
Yeah, like, when you're trying to get to the office, and somebody cuts you off in traffic, that's equivilant to going out and killing a mastadon.
Sport forms character, manly straightforward character, a scorn of lying and meanness, habits of obedience and command, and fearless courage. (last quote)
It does? Really? Whence the jock stereotype, then?
One of the reasons so many women today enter the armed forces (and workplace) is due to their participation in sports, which have helped prepare them for that endeavor.
Right, right right. It has nothing to do with the need for income, or with the desire for intellectual stimulation, or with the desire to be patriotic. Sure.
Most Christian home school advocates today claim that the Hebrew model for education, since it is based on the Bible, is the one we should follow as compared to the pagan, humanistic Greek model we use in our public schools.
Actually, our model is the factory model.
It shouldn’t be a secret that women’s sports promote immodest attire.
Dammit, Eve, you should never have eaten that apple and decided to put on clothes!
I didn't get all of it, I was torn between sick and amused.
And one on women and sports.
I have read many great articles by Christian men and women regarding the participation of women in the workforce, politics, and in the military. These are activities that most women didn’t participate in until fifty years ago. However, I feel there is one other major activity these writers have not addressed. For some reason, they've overlooked women’s participation in sports.
They have? Huh. Interesting. It's probably because, in reality, sports aren't that important.
For quite a long time, women resisted the feminist call to play sports, since they just weren’t interested like men were.
Not all men are interested. And I'm fairly certain that many women are. Not that I know, I place myself firmly in the "no thanks" category. Too many people, too little coordination.
But this didn't sit well with the feminists; they felt this was the fault of male oppression.
Well, I wouldn't call it oppression, exactly. But budgeting a lot of money for guy's teams, and none for the girls? That's unfair. In fact, in many of these cases there doesn't seem, mihi, to be a reason that the teams can't be co-ed. And they're not. So maybe it's not oppression, but it's deliberately limiting options - for both genders (and that's all they recognize, so hush).
In the name of “equality,” feminist leaders poked and prodded and pushed women to join the games, until women in droves finally succumbed to the pressure.
Equality doesn't get quotes, sweetie.
Aside from that, let me see. Feminists poke governments to be more equal, and women start joining teams. Did feminists ever badger anybody to join a sports team? Do people really succumb to the peer pressure of what is, apparently, a tiny majority (it almost must be if this article is remotely accurate... *dramatic eyeroll*)?
I think this should give us strong reason to pause and consider the question, “Should women participate in sports?”
I think that should give us strong reason to pause and consider the question, "Should schools teach basic logic and reasoning skills?"
Over the years I’ve noticed that Christian parents, as much as any parents, encourage their daughters to participate in sports.
Yay.
This is all the rage in our public schools, especially since the passage of Title IX by the feminists.
By Congress, sweetie.
Since most Christian parents send their children to the public schools, it doesn’t surprise many of us that Christians are influenced more by the secular school culture than by the culture of the Church.
The Church has one culture? Since when?
Worse, the Church itself is being more heavily influenced by the culture instead of the other way around. One of the trends in schools is the participation in sports by women; therefore it shouldn’t surprise us that so many Christian daughters today participate in sports. But is this really all that bad?
Oh, not like we don't know where you're going with this one. I can't even snark, it's so obvious....
For those of us who believe we should train our daughters according to Titus 2, 1 Peter 3, and other Biblical passages, my answer is “Yes, it is not good.”
I love "other Biblical passages" being too inconsequential to even name. Hey, who wants to help me search the Bible for passages which refute those?
I propose that sports greatly hinders the development of godly, Biblical, feminine character.
You would, wouldn't you.
Parents today expend extraordinary amounts of time and energy taking their daughters from one sports event to another, week after week, even to the point where it exhausts the family and family resources.
They do this to their sons as well.
The fruits we see are that today’s Christian women are often ill-prepared to be Biblically obedient wives and mothers.
Yes, but they're definitely prepared to lift heavy loads, like groceries and children.
This brings to mind a couple of questions: “Why do we spend so much time preparing our daughters to play sports?" and "What does it prepare them for in the future?” My answer is that sports prepare women to be more like men. Instead of spending all that time preparing our daughters as the Bible directs, we are training them to be like men so they can better compete with men in traditionally masculine roles - i.e., compete with them in the workforce, in politics, in the military, and in sports.
I thought the Bible's advice on child-rearing was limited to "spare the rod" (and you see what happened to his son!)
Actually, I don’t have a problem with women playing recreational sports on an occasional basis, just with them playing competitive sports on a regular day-to-day basis.
Um, okay...?
This rigorous physical and mental training tends to make women more masculine.
Notice he has yet to define those words masculine and feminine. How clever of him. By leaving them undefined, he can attack anything that sports do to women and say "see, more masculine!"
I think it is prudent to often ask ourselves “Can a woman do this activity and retain a Biblically feminine character?”
I think it's prudent to often ask ourselves "Can I post this without sounding like an idiot? Should I have opted for the course in logic instead of the one in rigid theology?"
With sports I think it will be difficult in most cases. Even some of the traditionally more feminine sports like gymnastics and ice skating are now influencing women to be more masculine.
And, again, no definition of this term.
The Bible talks about women developing a quiet and gentle spirit; I think sports fosters anything but that.
I think this, I think that. I think the sky is green, but I have no evidence. Why should we believe you because of what you think? Where's the evidence? Sheesh, forget logic, this guy needs a course in basic essay writing.
As for a quiet and gentle spirit, I'll agree that sports generally do not seem to foster that spirit - on the playing field. I don't doubt, however, that people act differently on-field and off.
They instead develop a competitive and contentious spirit that will cause them to have great difficulty in their marriages
And the evidence for this is...? If he had any, he'd've presented it, showing us one family or another who has suffered.
I already mentioned that the effort expended on sports will hinder the development of wifely duties around the home; even worse is when a man has to compete against his own wife in the workplace and community.
Mentioned, but did not prove. And using this sports metaphor, people don't often compete against their teammates. Why would they compete against their teammate in life, that is, their spouse?
We have a nation filled with weak men and disorderly women.
Proof of this would be...?
Much of the disorderliness among women comes from feminist influences and activities like competitive sports.
I love how he never proves anything. I'd say that competitive sports are very likely to decrease disorderliness, due to the complexity which appears to be involved.
Most men I know admire a woman who is reasonably healthy and fit; they are also attracted to a woman who is somewhat “soft” and cuddly. This does not mean she should be delicate like tissue paper; no, a woman should be reasonably strong, and the normal duties of life will make her that way.
Great. Do we care what you're attracted to?
However, if you look at pictures of female athletes who play sports or observe them on the playing fields, you will notice that many develop strong, muscular bodies.
And...?
Female athletes also sneer, wince, push, and fight just like the men.
*snickers* Guess he never noticed that female people do that anyway, with or without sports. And so do male people, and people people.
The sneers are most obvious; they make young women very unfeminine. The masculine uniforms and sweaty bodies aren’t very attractive, either.
Back to me asking why we should care.
I also notice when driving by our public school grounds and sports fields another phenomenon taking place: the young girls are trained in sports right along with the boys.
Yay!
To me, this can only be degrading to the boys.
It can? Gee, I never knew guys were so senstive. It just makes me wanna cry. *sniffles*
In some cases, girls regularly participate on boys' sports teams, and therefore compete against the boys themselves.
OH NO!!!!!111
During the past decade, more and more girls participated in wrestling; since there were no girls' wrestling teams, they joined the boys' teams and competed against the boys.
Just as well, it kept all those nice, straight boys from having to grope other guys. No doubt that would make them hoomoos.
I read about one school where the boys refused to wrestle the girls and forfeited their matches
Wimps.
there could be no greater embarrassment to them than to lose to a girl
Sexist wimps.
not to mention it likely violated their sense of masculine chivalry.
Yeah, right. *cracks up*
So not only is female sports participation degrading the feminine nature of women, in many cases it degrades the developing masculinity in boys.
I'd say it teaches them that they live in a species made up of more than one type of person, but whatever.
At the recent summer Olympics in Greece, women’s wrestling was a new sport. There were several female wrestlers on the U.S. Olympic team; most of them received their training by wrestling with men in college, since there were no women’s teams. If you saw their pictures, they looked just like men smashing each other into the mats. Women’s handball was another sport that I’d never seen before, and the pictures I saw of the women fighting each other were sometimes grotesque. Similarly aggressive sports are women’s hockey, boxing, football, rugby, and others where oftentimes the women pretty much look and act like men. But even the less aggressive but more common sports like soccer, basketball, and softball tend to make women masculine and manly.
Blah, blah, blah. Is this guy so caught up on appearances? Well, he must be, he defines people by their genitalia...
Agonistic masculine play was the origin of civilization. (this is quote)
It was? I thought that the source of civilization was, like, farming or something.
Because sports provide an initiation into masculinity, they can easily become a religion. (this is also a quote, from a block of quoted text)
So, nobody should participate in sports, right?
Sports are often the way the boy puts away the soft, sheltering world of the mother and her femininity and enters the world of challenge and danger that makes him a man. (more quotey goodness)
Yeah, like, when you're trying to get to the office, and somebody cuts you off in traffic, that's equivilant to going out and killing a mastadon.
Sport forms character, manly straightforward character, a scorn of lying and meanness, habits of obedience and command, and fearless courage. (last quote)
It does? Really? Whence the jock stereotype, then?
One of the reasons so many women today enter the armed forces (and workplace) is due to their participation in sports, which have helped prepare them for that endeavor.
Right, right right. It has nothing to do with the need for income, or with the desire for intellectual stimulation, or with the desire to be patriotic. Sure.
Most Christian home school advocates today claim that the Hebrew model for education, since it is based on the Bible, is the one we should follow as compared to the pagan, humanistic Greek model we use in our public schools.
Actually, our model is the factory model.
It shouldn’t be a secret that women’s sports promote immodest attire.
Dammit, Eve, you should never have eaten that apple and decided to put on clothes!
I didn't get all of it, I was torn between sick and amused.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2005-03-10 02:30 pm (UTC)My parents never shoved me into sports. They accepted and supported activities I enjoyed.
My potentially volatile nature comes FROM being quiet...and taking harassment quietly until I can no longer hold it in. Sports didn't teach me that...my little non-sporty SISTER did.
Many sports involve TEAMWORK and DIRECTIONS FROM COACHES...how does THAT promote fighting and insubordination? If someone's going to be violently competitive or challenge autority, they'll be that way with or without sports. I play for fun, not to win (though I do try...that's part of the fun and to get better at the game than another person and improve on my own skills). I've known and played sports with guys who really DON'T care if they get beaten or if a girl is on their team. Sometimes it was purposefully on my part to play with or against (depending on which situation worked out) guys I had crushes on. It's a big part of what got me into liking sports in the first place.
I played indoor soccer and got the ball kicked into my face once. I was the only female. They asked if I was OK, and with a half-red face I said yeah, let's go. They admired me for it. They weren't embarrassed or intimidated.
Sports help teach skill and build strength. And most of the time, unless a kid is raised by an overbearing sports fan parent, it's a healthy thing to like or NOT like sports. Really, WHAT'S wrong with that?