Oh dear...
Dec. 18th, 2004 01:40 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
conuly
Thanks to ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
literalgirl, among others.
Clicky!
This year, as Christmas season swung into gear, Pastor Patrick Wooden's followers fanned out to shopping malls across Raleigh to deliver a muscular message of holiday cheer: As Christian shoppers, they would like to be greeted with the phrase "Merry Christmas" — not a bland "Happy Holidays" — and stores that failed to do so would risk losing their business.
And as a non-Christian shopper, I love the alliterative phrase "Happy Holidays". Plus, I feel it is more inclusive - these people want *all* my holidays to be happy, not just the ones that happen to occur in the winter. That includes Labor Day and Arbor Day and my birthday. Wonderful!
Conservative Christians nationwide have converged around the topic of Christmas, complaining that secularists and nonbelievers have tried to obliterate the holiday's religious meaning.
Hm. Here's the thing. Buying presents? Non-religious. Putting up lights? Non-religious. Decorating a tree? Non-religious. Having hissyfits about what people say? NON-RELIGIOUS. So, in order to be fair, they should celebrate Christmas by staying home, praying, and practicing that good ol' fashioned Christian charity.
"Our position is: If they want the gold, frankincense and myrrh, they should acknowledge the birth of the child," said Wooden, pastor of the Upper Room Church of God in Christ.
Nobody wants myrrh. That gift sucked. They only gave it to "the child" because it meant he'd die.
It's not your place to push your beliefs onto other people. That's using vinegar to call the flies, you self-righteous little...
Conservative Americans feel ready to push back against "the secularists or the humanists or the elitists" who dominate popular culture, said the Rev. Mark Creech of the Christian Action League of North Carolina, which is based in Raleigh.
No, really? I hadn't noticed.
"It's a cultural war. We are in the thick of it," Creech said. "It's not so much an attack on us. It's an attack on Christ."
Christ, who said to turn the other cheek? Christ, who said to do good unto those who oppose you? Christ, who, I believe, had quite a bit to say about people who put the symbol above the meaning?
Created by the Roman Catholic Church in the 4th century, the celebration of the nativity coincided with pre-Christian feasts, allowing observant Christians to "then go out the door and participate in Saturnalia," Restad said.
*nodnodnod*
Karal Ann Marling, author of "Merry Christmas! Celebrating America's Greatest Holiday," called complaints about secularization "complete and utter bunk."
"If you think Christmas meant the baby Jesus in the past, it didn't," said Marling, a professor of art history at the University of Minnesota.
Thankies.
On the day after Thanksgiving, the church ran a full-page advertisement in the Raleigh News and Observer, urging Christians to "spend their hard-earned dollars with merchants who include the greeting Merry Christmas."
Oh dear. What would Jesus do?
Over the next week, the paper ran a series of passionate letters, many critical of the advertisement:
"What happened to the land that my parents, Eastern European immigrants, adopted as their beloved country — a country of fairness and tolerance?" wrote Harriet Lasher.
An Episcopal priest wrote to compare the campaign to the Nazi policy requiring Jews to identify themselves with yellow stars.
It's not that bad yet, fortunately.
Judah Segal, executive director of the Raleigh-Cary Jewish Federation, said he was not disturbed by the advertisement, and hoped it was intended to "remind Christians that there is an essence to the holiday," not to shut out others.
"We really respect and admire people who want to have religious content in their own holiday," he said.
That's very nice. Did you *read* the ad? I think telling people to only shop at stores which say "Merry Christmas" is trying to shut out others.
Wooden, 43, considers the campaign such a success that he has already set aside money in the church budget — full-page ads cost about $7,600 — to buy a similar advertisement next year. Fresh off the fierce debate over same-sex marriage, which he opposes, he says condemnation from the left does not trouble him. On the contrary, he said: "It seems to me the greater the persecution, the stronger the church."
You're not being persecuted. Dear god, these people need to spend some time where there's *real* persecution so they'll shut up talking about it. You're not forced to whisper your holiday greetings out of fear of retribution, you don't wake up and find anti-Christian graffiti on your houses, you aren't prevented from teaching your religion to your children and random strangers, you're NOT fucking persecuted!
As far as complaints from people of other religions go, Wooden looks at it this way: An ice-cream vendor doesn't have to like every flavor he sells.
I really fail to see the analogy. An ice cream vendor tries to offer the ice cream most customers will be able to eat - therefore, Merry Christmas is not appropriate, as more people celebrate *any* holiday now than Christmas specifically.
"There's one group of people who get bullied all the time, and that's Christians," he said. "I know what it is like to be bullied. It is apartheid in reverse — the majority is being bullied by the minority."
Didn't I just tell you that you're not persecuted? Yeah, you're not "bullied all the time" either. Nobody is trying to take away your civil rights because you're Christian, nobody is compelling you to wish others a happy Hannukah or Diwali or Ramadan (which, I know, isn't a solstice holiday, but...)
Little has changed at Cary Towne Center, where Wooden's members delivered letters in late October: Festoons of tiny lights twinkle from the ceiling, garlands of artificial pine deck the halls, and the word "Christmas" is hard to find. Phyllis Maultsby, who owns the shop Light Years Jewelry, said pressure would not change her holiday decorating choices.
"I'm not going to be influenced, because we embrace diversity," Maultsby said. "I certainly would never want to feel like I was being bullied."
Oh, but you're not, didn't you hear? THEY are.
"I don't see anything to gain by offending others, but many of us are offended ourselves," said Jones, who owns a remodeling business. "I think we — the collective we — are allowing a small minority of people to rule our lives. I'm opposed to that."
You're offended over something so niggling and insignificant? Be thankful that this is the least of your worries.
Antarctica may not be far enough.
literalgirl, among others.Clicky!
This year, as Christmas season swung into gear, Pastor Patrick Wooden's followers fanned out to shopping malls across Raleigh to deliver a muscular message of holiday cheer: As Christian shoppers, they would like to be greeted with the phrase "Merry Christmas" — not a bland "Happy Holidays" — and stores that failed to do so would risk losing their business.
And as a non-Christian shopper, I love the alliterative phrase "Happy Holidays". Plus, I feel it is more inclusive - these people want *all* my holidays to be happy, not just the ones that happen to occur in the winter. That includes Labor Day and Arbor Day and my birthday. Wonderful!
Conservative Christians nationwide have converged around the topic of Christmas, complaining that secularists and nonbelievers have tried to obliterate the holiday's religious meaning.
Hm. Here's the thing. Buying presents? Non-religious. Putting up lights? Non-religious. Decorating a tree? Non-religious. Having hissyfits about what people say? NON-RELIGIOUS. So, in order to be fair, they should celebrate Christmas by staying home, praying, and practicing that good ol' fashioned Christian charity.
"Our position is: If they want the gold, frankincense and myrrh, they should acknowledge the birth of the child," said Wooden, pastor of the Upper Room Church of God in Christ.
Nobody wants myrrh. That gift sucked. They only gave it to "the child" because it meant he'd die.
It's not your place to push your beliefs onto other people. That's using vinegar to call the flies, you self-righteous little...
Conservative Americans feel ready to push back against "the secularists or the humanists or the elitists" who dominate popular culture, said the Rev. Mark Creech of the Christian Action League of North Carolina, which is based in Raleigh.
No, really? I hadn't noticed.
"It's a cultural war. We are in the thick of it," Creech said. "It's not so much an attack on us. It's an attack on Christ."
Christ, who said to turn the other cheek? Christ, who said to do good unto those who oppose you? Christ, who, I believe, had quite a bit to say about people who put the symbol above the meaning?
Created by the Roman Catholic Church in the 4th century, the celebration of the nativity coincided with pre-Christian feasts, allowing observant Christians to "then go out the door and participate in Saturnalia," Restad said.
*nodnodnod*
Karal Ann Marling, author of "Merry Christmas! Celebrating America's Greatest Holiday," called complaints about secularization "complete and utter bunk."
"If you think Christmas meant the baby Jesus in the past, it didn't," said Marling, a professor of art history at the University of Minnesota.
Thankies.
On the day after Thanksgiving, the church ran a full-page advertisement in the Raleigh News and Observer, urging Christians to "spend their hard-earned dollars with merchants who include the greeting Merry Christmas."
Oh dear. What would Jesus do?
Over the next week, the paper ran a series of passionate letters, many critical of the advertisement:
"What happened to the land that my parents, Eastern European immigrants, adopted as their beloved country — a country of fairness and tolerance?" wrote Harriet Lasher.
An Episcopal priest wrote to compare the campaign to the Nazi policy requiring Jews to identify themselves with yellow stars.
It's not that bad yet, fortunately.
Judah Segal, executive director of the Raleigh-Cary Jewish Federation, said he was not disturbed by the advertisement, and hoped it was intended to "remind Christians that there is an essence to the holiday," not to shut out others.
"We really respect and admire people who want to have religious content in their own holiday," he said.
That's very nice. Did you *read* the ad? I think telling people to only shop at stores which say "Merry Christmas" is trying to shut out others.
Wooden, 43, considers the campaign such a success that he has already set aside money in the church budget — full-page ads cost about $7,600 — to buy a similar advertisement next year. Fresh off the fierce debate over same-sex marriage, which he opposes, he says condemnation from the left does not trouble him. On the contrary, he said: "It seems to me the greater the persecution, the stronger the church."
You're not being persecuted. Dear god, these people need to spend some time where there's *real* persecution so they'll shut up talking about it. You're not forced to whisper your holiday greetings out of fear of retribution, you don't wake up and find anti-Christian graffiti on your houses, you aren't prevented from teaching your religion to your children and random strangers, you're NOT fucking persecuted!
As far as complaints from people of other religions go, Wooden looks at it this way: An ice-cream vendor doesn't have to like every flavor he sells.
I really fail to see the analogy. An ice cream vendor tries to offer the ice cream most customers will be able to eat - therefore, Merry Christmas is not appropriate, as more people celebrate *any* holiday now than Christmas specifically.
"There's one group of people who get bullied all the time, and that's Christians," he said. "I know what it is like to be bullied. It is apartheid in reverse — the majority is being bullied by the minority."
Didn't I just tell you that you're not persecuted? Yeah, you're not "bullied all the time" either. Nobody is trying to take away your civil rights because you're Christian, nobody is compelling you to wish others a happy Hannukah or Diwali or Ramadan (which, I know, isn't a solstice holiday, but...)
Little has changed at Cary Towne Center, where Wooden's members delivered letters in late October: Festoons of tiny lights twinkle from the ceiling, garlands of artificial pine deck the halls, and the word "Christmas" is hard to find. Phyllis Maultsby, who owns the shop Light Years Jewelry, said pressure would not change her holiday decorating choices.
"I'm not going to be influenced, because we embrace diversity," Maultsby said. "I certainly would never want to feel like I was being bullied."
Oh, but you're not, didn't you hear? THEY are.
"I don't see anything to gain by offending others, but many of us are offended ourselves," said Jones, who owns a remodeling business. "I think we — the collective we — are allowing a small minority of people to rule our lives. I'm opposed to that."
You're offended over something so niggling and insignificant? Be thankful that this is the least of your worries.
Antarctica may not be far enough.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 11:15 am (UTC)I fail to see why a cheery Happy Holidays is persecuting the Christians. We have no national religion. Nada. Therefore, our government (as of today) does not see Christianity as the Almighty Religion of the Almighty United States and one is entitled NOT to celebrate Christmas, or just celebrate "holidays."
Intolerant assholes.
no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 11:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 03:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 03:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 04:03 pm (UTC)For example: the war, hunger, poverty, actual persecution, hypocrisy of various respected people, hatred....
no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 04:16 pm (UTC)And I do agree with you on point 2. As an illustration, I was directed to a Russian article today which was dedicated to explaining that following the Mayor of Moscow's decision, all shop- and market-stall owners who failed to put up Christmas decorations by today would be fined 1000 roubles (that's $35.78, not a lot really, but enough if you consider it's freedom of will that's being curtailed). Personally, I don't give a hoot whether a store of my choice is kitted out in vile tut or not, so long as the service is pleasant and prices acceptable.
no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 05:50 pm (UTC)Dear god, that's insane. And it's more over there, I think, than it is here.
no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 04:24 pm (UTC)"Created by the Roman Catholic Church in the 4th century, the celebration of the nativity coincided with pre-Christian feasts, allowing observant Christians to "then go out the door and participate in Saturnalia," Restad said."
Exactly! It's always baffled me how people don't' realise this.
no subject
Date: 2004-12-19 01:15 am (UTC)Three of those DO have Christian symbolisms, the tree in particular. Having hissyfits is certainly NOT, though. You're right that Christians should celebrate it more Christian-like, in quiet reverence and charity. :-)
no subject
Date: 2004-12-19 09:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 11:15 am (UTC)I fail to see why a cheery Happy Holidays is persecuting the Christians. We have no national religion. Nada. Therefore, our government (as of today) does not see Christianity as the Almighty Religion of the Almighty United States and one is entitled NOT to celebrate Christmas, or just celebrate "holidays."
Intolerant assholes.
no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 11:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 03:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 03:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 04:03 pm (UTC)For example: the war, hunger, poverty, actual persecution, hypocrisy of various respected people, hatred....
no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 04:16 pm (UTC)And I do agree with you on point 2. As an illustration, I was directed to a Russian article today which was dedicated to explaining that following the Mayor of Moscow's decision, all shop- and market-stall owners who failed to put up Christmas decorations by today would be fined 1000 roubles (that's $35.78, not a lot really, but enough if you consider it's freedom of will that's being curtailed). Personally, I don't give a hoot whether a store of my choice is kitted out in vile tut or not, so long as the service is pleasant and prices acceptable.
no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 05:50 pm (UTC)Dear god, that's insane. And it's more over there, I think, than it is here.
no subject
Date: 2004-12-18 04:24 pm (UTC)"Created by the Roman Catholic Church in the 4th century, the celebration of the nativity coincided with pre-Christian feasts, allowing observant Christians to "then go out the door and participate in Saturnalia," Restad said."
Exactly! It's always baffled me how people don't' realise this.
no subject
Date: 2004-12-19 01:15 am (UTC)Three of those DO have Christian symbolisms, the tree in particular. Having hissyfits is certainly NOT, though. You're right that Christians should celebrate it more Christian-like, in quiet reverence and charity. :-)
no subject
Date: 2004-12-19 09:57 am (UTC)