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conuly
Apparently, not all schools are reciting the Pledge of Allegience anymore. Now, my personal feelings about this run thusly:
1. Lots of kids memorize that, say it every day, and have no idea what they're saying. They say it by rote, messing the words up or adding "you may now be seated" at the end because they think that's how it goes.
2. You're asking kids to make a promise they may not be willing or able to keep. How exactly does one define "allegience" to a flag? Or a nation, even? Does disagreeing with this nation constitute a lack of allegience? What about emigrating, have you broken your promise? I don't like promising things unless I know what I mean, why should kids be coerced into doing the same?
3. The whole under God thing... yeah, well, it's called COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT. Congress does NOT have the right to add the words "under God" to a piece that was written without it. Yes, that's right, it was originally written NOT to say that. Besides, to some religions, the Pledge of Allegience constitutes a prayer... to a flag... and is thus a violation of the first and second commandments.
4. *laughs* I don't care if you say students can opt out, first off, they're not going to want to because, really, who likes to stand out for their beliefs, and second, what, kids can opt out but teachers can't? Yeah, THAT'S a fair working environment. Besides, people really CAN'T opt out, not without getting a lawyer. Stupid teacher types make a fuss because they know they can get away with it. Don't argue, I've done it. Haven't said the Pledge since the 6th grade, not since I realized most people didn't realize what they were saying, and those that did often chose to interpret those statements jingoisticly, not patrioticly.
5. Seriously, if you want something patriotic to say every day, try The American's Creed (betcha never heard of that, did ya?). I mean, compare:
"I believe in the United States of America as a government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed, a democracy in a republic, a sovereign Nation of many sovereign States; a perfect union, one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice, and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes.
"I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it, to support its Constitution, to obey its laws to respect its flag, and to defend it against all enemies."
to the Pledge of Allegience:
I pledge allegience to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, (under God), indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
The flag is a minor player in the Creed, as it should be. Far more important are principles we want to uphold and a reminder to support the constitution. It doesn't even say that defense against all enemies has to be military, so even pacifists can say this without being dishonest.
Anyway, that part aside, the whole reason this article is interesting is what the Board of Ed. said:
"A Department of Education spokesperson told the paper that schools will be reminded that reciting the pledge is not optional."
Um... seriously, sweetie, the way you put that sounds too Orwellian for my tastes. Are you sure that's the way you wish to present yourself?
"Reciting the pledge is NOT optional. Loving the country is NOT optional. Joining the army is NOT optional. Believing what I have just said is NOT optional."
1. Lots of kids memorize that, say it every day, and have no idea what they're saying. They say it by rote, messing the words up or adding "you may now be seated" at the end because they think that's how it goes.
2. You're asking kids to make a promise they may not be willing or able to keep. How exactly does one define "allegience" to a flag? Or a nation, even? Does disagreeing with this nation constitute a lack of allegience? What about emigrating, have you broken your promise? I don't like promising things unless I know what I mean, why should kids be coerced into doing the same?
3. The whole under God thing... yeah, well, it's called COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT. Congress does NOT have the right to add the words "under God" to a piece that was written without it. Yes, that's right, it was originally written NOT to say that. Besides, to some religions, the Pledge of Allegience constitutes a prayer... to a flag... and is thus a violation of the first and second commandments.
4. *laughs* I don't care if you say students can opt out, first off, they're not going to want to because, really, who likes to stand out for their beliefs, and second, what, kids can opt out but teachers can't? Yeah, THAT'S a fair working environment. Besides, people really CAN'T opt out, not without getting a lawyer. Stupid teacher types make a fuss because they know they can get away with it. Don't argue, I've done it. Haven't said the Pledge since the 6th grade, not since I realized most people didn't realize what they were saying, and those that did often chose to interpret those statements jingoisticly, not patrioticly.
5. Seriously, if you want something patriotic to say every day, try The American's Creed (betcha never heard of that, did ya?). I mean, compare:
"I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it, to support its Constitution, to obey its laws to respect its flag, and to defend it against all enemies."
to the Pledge of Allegience:
The flag is a minor player in the Creed, as it should be. Far more important are principles we want to uphold and a reminder to support the constitution. It doesn't even say that defense against all enemies has to be military, so even pacifists can say this without being dishonest.
Anyway, that part aside, the whole reason this article is interesting is what the Board of Ed. said:
"A Department of Education spokesperson told the paper that schools will be reminded that reciting the pledge is not optional."
Um... seriously, sweetie, the way you put that sounds too Orwellian for my tastes. Are you sure that's the way you wish to present yourself?
"Reciting the pledge is NOT optional. Loving the country is NOT optional. Joining the army is NOT optional. Believing what I have just said is NOT optional."
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no subject
Date: 2003-10-05 06:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-10-05 06:49 pm (UTC)I don't, of course, wish to denigrate the Pledge of Allegience. I think, taken by itself, it's a fine piece of work. Especially in the ORIGINAL original, which was never published:
"...with liberty, equality, and justice for all".
But as it goes, sorry, the Creed is better for what they want. Among other things, the words are (generally) a bit simpler, and the concept is less vague. So its' better for kids than the Pledge ANYWAY.
How we do things at Avalon...
Date: 2003-10-05 07:11 pm (UTC)Either way, I love that the choice is left to US. WE get to decide.
And frankly, SHOULDN'T it be that way?
Re: How we do things at Avalon...
Date: 2003-10-05 07:16 pm (UTC)For my mind, if you have to recite how patriotic you are every day... you can't be very sincere. To steal from the bard: "Methinks the lady doth protest too much". The more people proclaim a certain virtue, the less I think they've got it.
Anyway, you *could* always bring up the Creed... start a movement....
no subject
Date: 2003-10-05 07:34 pm (UTC)Compare:
Logical punctuation:
I pledge allegience to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation (under God,) indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Punctuation when people speak it:
I pledge allegience, to the flag, of theUnitedStatesofAmerica. And to the republic, for which it stands, one nation, (under God), indivisible, with liberty, and justice, for all.
*shudders* Another unfortunate side effect of kids memorizing things they don't understand, I guess. Or people not meaning what they say....
Re: How we do things at Avalon...
Date: 2003-10-05 09:29 pm (UTC)I should. But. Our three lone republicans would be upset, and at our school, even the minority counts. GO FIGURE. =P
no subject
Date: 2003-10-05 09:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-10-05 09:32 pm (UTC)*runs*
I don't want to be near you when they find out you've uncovered their diabolical plot!
Re: How we do things at Avalon...
Date: 2003-10-05 09:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-10-05 06:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-10-05 06:49 pm (UTC)I don't, of course, wish to denigrate the Pledge of Allegience. I think, taken by itself, it's a fine piece of work. Especially in the ORIGINAL original, which was never published:
"...with liberty, equality, and justice for all".
But as it goes, sorry, the Creed is better for what they want. Among other things, the words are (generally) a bit simpler, and the concept is less vague. So its' better for kids than the Pledge ANYWAY.
How we do things at Avalon...
Date: 2003-10-05 07:11 pm (UTC)Either way, I love that the choice is left to US. WE get to decide.
And frankly, SHOULDN'T it be that way?
Re: How we do things at Avalon...
Date: 2003-10-05 07:16 pm (UTC)For my mind, if you have to recite how patriotic you are every day... you can't be very sincere. To steal from the bard: "Methinks the lady doth protest too much". The more people proclaim a certain virtue, the less I think they've got it.
Anyway, you *could* always bring up the Creed... start a movement....
no subject
Date: 2003-10-05 07:34 pm (UTC)Compare:
Logical punctuation:
I pledge allegience to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation (under God,) indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Punctuation when people speak it:
I pledge allegience, to the flag, of theUnitedStatesofAmerica. And to the republic, for which it stands, one nation, (under God), indivisible, with liberty, and justice, for all.
*shudders* Another unfortunate side effect of kids memorizing things they don't understand, I guess. Or people not meaning what they say....
Re: How we do things at Avalon...
Date: 2003-10-05 09:29 pm (UTC)I should. But. Our three lone republicans would be upset, and at our school, even the minority counts. GO FIGURE. =P
no subject
Date: 2003-10-05 09:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-10-05 09:32 pm (UTC)*runs*
I don't want to be near you when they find out you've uncovered their diabolical plot!
Re: How we do things at Avalon...
Date: 2003-10-05 09:56 pm (UTC)