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conuly
Everyone know's what the Holocaust was. 6 million Jews killed for no good reason except a dictator who needed someone to blame. Well after the Holocaust when the UN set up the Isreali state in the former Palestine, Isrealis, now in the majority Jews to Muslim ratio, began to persecute the former Palestinians. They drove them out of villages, killed their children, made them pay heavy taxes, and not get good jobs. Now you think the Isrealis, because of the Holocaust would know what it was like, they did, but they did it anyways. I am in no way vilifying Jewish people or Isrealis, but this situation proves that suffering in the past does not justify the victim's lashing out.
1. Apparently, not everybody knows what the Holocaust was. We're talking about ten million people, sixty percent of whom were Jewish (or married to somebody Jewish, or descended from somebody Jewish). Sixty percent is a majority, but hardly the entirety of the loss.
2. I'm not going to pretend I agree with Israel's policies, but the most noticeable reaction from the Palestinians is just as bad! All it does is give Israel an excuse to say "see, they're mean and evil!" The only people in the whole situation who have any sense are those who 1. left or 2. are trying out the idea of peaceful protest. And that's on both sides of the issue.
3. The rest of the post was equally asinine, including a ubiquitous "free speech cannot be taken away" comment. *rolls her eyes*
Wait, I decided to post it here.
Example #2: estu_k_aftadai and kalelian vs. feminist
I cite the first amendment that every person has a right to free speech and press. To translate that, everyone has the right to think what they want and write what they want. You don't have to like it, but they have that right. Sure you can ban people like them from the community, but what happens when you ban all those people? You end up with a endless string of men's crimes against the world. Hurray, you've proven men must be evil because everything that is posted on the community is about evil men. Why is that? becasue you've banned everyone else. Good job, that's like predicting the vote of the coming election by checking the polls in Texas.
1. Apparently, not everybody knows what the Holocaust was. We're talking about ten million people, sixty percent of whom were Jewish (or married to somebody Jewish, or descended from somebody Jewish). Sixty percent is a majority, but hardly the entirety of the loss.
2. I'm not going to pretend I agree with Israel's policies, but the most noticeable reaction from the Palestinians is just as bad! All it does is give Israel an excuse to say "see, they're mean and evil!" The only people in the whole situation who have any sense are those who 1. left or 2. are trying out the idea of peaceful protest. And that's on both sides of the issue.
3. The rest of the post was equally asinine, including a ubiquitous "free speech cannot be taken away" comment. *rolls her eyes*
Wait, I decided to post it here.
Example #2: estu_k_aftadai and kalelian vs. feminist
I cite the first amendment that every person has a right to free speech and press. To translate that, everyone has the right to think what they want and write what they want. You don't have to like it, but they have that right. Sure you can ban people like them from the community, but what happens when you ban all those people? You end up with a endless string of men's crimes against the world. Hurray, you've proven men must be evil because everything that is posted on the community is about evil men. Why is that? becasue you've banned everyone else. Good job, that's like predicting the vote of the coming election by checking the polls in Texas.
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no subject
Date: 2004-10-05 07:34 pm (UTC)Yup. That'd be the reason why I'm an Australian. My grandfather said " ********* this hole" and packed up the family and left.
********* = collection of miselanious swearwords in german, yiddish, english, french and dutch. Nobody could swear like my grandfather.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-05 08:27 pm (UTC)Sure, the Israelis have adopted some pretty brutal policies against the Palestinians. But which came first, the chicken or the egg? Did the person who posted that think that people who had lived through the Holocaust were going to turn around and take shit from Palestinians? Hell no! The Haganah and Stern gangs were made up of some hard core Holocaust survivors whose mission was to make sure that Jews never went through another Holocaust. You just can't push a people that far and expect them to not (over)react to defend themselves in the future.
Did that make any sense whatsoever? 'Cuz I'm a little drunk.
PS: As far as the number of Jews killed, the number I've usually seen cited is 6 million. The approximate number killed in the concentration camps was around 11 million, but not all were Jewish.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-06 08:45 am (UTC)Yeah, I know. That's why I said 60% of 10 million.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-05 08:38 pm (UTC)The situation for Palestinians, especially in the occupied terrorities, is directly akin to apartheid in South Africa. The fact is that the Palestinians are living in a much more desperate and oppressed situation than the Israelis are. Your statement seems to downplay that. And why do you consider it a virtue for people to abandon their homeland? Both Palestinians and Israelis love their home. They shouldn't have to leave.
The majority of both Palestinians and Israelis want peace. You cannot identify the actions of terrorist groups like Hamas with all Palestinians, any more than you can identify the actions of the Israeli government with all Israelis. When you speak of "the most noticeable reaction," bear in mind that you're speaking of the reaction that gets reported in the news. The news always goes for the more sensational image.
Yes, the situation over there is seriously fucked up on both sides. But in this case, I think the original poster summed it up with a bit more accuracy than you do. I also think the situation doesn't have a hope of being resolved until the US puts pressure on Israel.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-06 08:44 am (UTC)I didn't call it a virtue. I called it sensible. If I thought I had a very good chance of dying, just by living in my city, I'd leave it. Fast. Doesn't matter that I love it here, I don't want to die over something like that. Whether or not they have to leave, it's not smart to stay where you're in danger.
When you speak of "the most noticeable reaction," bear in mind that you're speaking of the reaction that gets reported in the news
I know that. That's why I called it noticeable, not common, obvious, or "supported by the majority".
I also think the situation doesn't have a hope of being resolved until the US puts pressure on Israel.
Well then. We're going to be waiting a LONG time. I wouldn't hold my breath.
But that's another issue.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-05 07:34 pm (UTC)Yup. That'd be the reason why I'm an Australian. My grandfather said " ********* this hole" and packed up the family and left.
********* = collection of miselanious swearwords in german, yiddish, english, french and dutch. Nobody could swear like my grandfather.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-05 08:27 pm (UTC)Sure, the Israelis have adopted some pretty brutal policies against the Palestinians. But which came first, the chicken or the egg? Did the person who posted that think that people who had lived through the Holocaust were going to turn around and take shit from Palestinians? Hell no! The Haganah and Stern gangs were made up of some hard core Holocaust survivors whose mission was to make sure that Jews never went through another Holocaust. You just can't push a people that far and expect them to not (over)react to defend themselves in the future.
Did that make any sense whatsoever? 'Cuz I'm a little drunk.
PS: As far as the number of Jews killed, the number I've usually seen cited is 6 million. The approximate number killed in the concentration camps was around 11 million, but not all were Jewish.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-06 08:45 am (UTC)Yeah, I know. That's why I said 60% of 10 million.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-05 08:38 pm (UTC)The situation for Palestinians, especially in the occupied terrorities, is directly akin to apartheid in South Africa. The fact is that the Palestinians are living in a much more desperate and oppressed situation than the Israelis are. Your statement seems to downplay that. And why do you consider it a virtue for people to abandon their homeland? Both Palestinians and Israelis love their home. They shouldn't have to leave.
The majority of both Palestinians and Israelis want peace. You cannot identify the actions of terrorist groups like Hamas with all Palestinians, any more than you can identify the actions of the Israeli government with all Israelis. When you speak of "the most noticeable reaction," bear in mind that you're speaking of the reaction that gets reported in the news. The news always goes for the more sensational image.
Yes, the situation over there is seriously fucked up on both sides. But in this case, I think the original poster summed it up with a bit more accuracy than you do. I also think the situation doesn't have a hope of being resolved until the US puts pressure on Israel.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-06 08:44 am (UTC)I didn't call it a virtue. I called it sensible. If I thought I had a very good chance of dying, just by living in my city, I'd leave it. Fast. Doesn't matter that I love it here, I don't want to die over something like that. Whether or not they have to leave, it's not smart to stay where you're in danger.
When you speak of "the most noticeable reaction," bear in mind that you're speaking of the reaction that gets reported in the news
I know that. That's why I called it noticeable, not common, obvious, or "supported by the majority".
I also think the situation doesn't have a hope of being resolved until the US puts pressure on Israel.
Well then. We're going to be waiting a LONG time. I wouldn't hold my breath.
But that's another issue.