conuly | Okay, I do have another opinion

though it's not strictly Miraculous Ladybug.

I watched the special where they went to NYC - and I gotta say, it both amazes and amuses me that they're so excited about this! "It's the fashion capital of the world!" Yes, but have you kids noticed that you live in (an admittedly weirdly depopulated version of) Paris lately?

Also, just gonna point out, for the entire class to be able to afford a trans-Atlantic school trip, they've all gotta be pretty much rolling in it. Nice to have that confirmed.

Anyway, in NYC they encounter this Android girl who spends 77.43% of her dialog saying variations on "My mother says being human is this thing" and after the dozenth time I just want to shake that poor child and say "But you're not human! And you don't have to be! You're just fine the way you are!" but nope, here she is, saying it again.

Maybe I only noticed because the fiction I consume nowadays is mostly moving away from this "The non-human construct's not-so-secret hope is to be human" trope (Murderbot has opinions on this trope) but - how did we not notice how toxic it is for so long? It is so toxic. It's okay for Data to not be human! It's okay for all the androids and robots to not be human! They're all fine just the way they are!

(I feel like I may have posted this before, but I feel very strongly about it.)

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

peoriapeoriawhereart

Have you seen Lightyear?

The trope of Pinnochio yearnings of Androids runs a gamut but the toxicity has origins in The 20th century eugenics movement. There's also a certain Editor and Asimov.

From:

pauamma

Are you thinking of _The Bicentennial Man_? (I think Silverberg's _Tower of Glass_ is a more convincing treatment of that trope, personally.)

From:

peoriapeoriawhereart

Not specifically. The Laws of Robotics has its own toxicity also

From:

pauamma

Point, although I don't see Pinnochio yearnings in it, specifically. Am I missing something?

From:

peoriapeoriawhereart

There is a relation between science fiction androids and Pinnochio. It's perhaps less common now and it certainly was a fracture line back in early science fiction. Robots to androids is a continuum.

From:

pauamma

There is that.

From:

peoriapeoriawhereart

I love how your icon is diligently a safety engineer.

From:

pauamma

Advocate, definitely. Not sure about "engineer". :-)

But yeah. I decided it was more than time to make a point. (Contrast with my previous default, just below it on https://pauamma.dreamwidth.org/icons.)

From:

peoriapeoriawhereart

I'm Midwestern, this time of year, death could be any direction and from impersonal to murder aforethought.

From:

pauamma

I don't understand what you're saying.

From:

peoriapeoriawhereart

Just consider it a 'drink a beverage and wear goggles' crustacean. ;^)

From:

conuly

I have not. Does it do this thing? Because if it does this thing, I'm not sure I want to.

From:

gale_storm

“It is so toxic.”

< whistle > Wow. That it is. I can nearly hear the voice inside my head. There’s your toxicity.

From:

conuly

You are also fine just the way you are.

From:

rebeccmeister

I get a little paranoid about repeating myself, but on the other hand, if we can't repeat ourselves on our blogs, well!

And I can definitely understand why you'd feel so strongly about this.

From:

conuly

Seriously, though, how did we not all ping this as toxic from the get-go?

From:

peoriapeoriawhereart

The water has always been such.

From:

chanter1944

Considering the known occupations of half the class's adult family members - a professional mime, a free-spirited semiprofessional sailor, a pair of bakers, a police officer, a zookeeper, a chef - I wonder if Chloé's father didn't have a significant hand in funding that particular school trip. He *is* the mayor, and as it's Franco-American friendship week (side eye) during that trip's span... "Of course you can go to New York, sweetie! I'll send your whole class to New York!"

Leaving Gabriel firmly out of this.

From:

conuly

The thing is, Marinette's family are not just "a pair of bakers" but THE bakers - the most popular bake shop in Paris, with their goods constantly at all the big parties and events.

I think they're actually doing pretty well for themselves.

From:

chanter1944

That's fair. I can still see André Bourgeois pulling a string or several for this one, though.

From:

peoriapeoriawhereart

I can perceive that I'm missed a lot not being in ML fandom.

As a student of (see my fandoms) and the inhumanity corrupt powers...

Such a troupe of parents could certainly pair up their connections to get NYC a worldwind visit of the whole class.

From:

robby

If it's any consolation, Amazon's Alexa seems quite happy living in the Cloud.

From:

conuly

And good for her!

I like to imagine that she and Siri are frenemies.

From:

peoriapeoriawhereart

Popping corn and faux fonduing toppings.

Offers peachy taffy with a salted soft-pretzel.

From:

siliconshaman

You know... if you swap out 'human' with 'girl/boy' it makes it very clear.

You're right though, just once I would like to hear the android saying; "Why the hell would I want to downgrade myself to be human?"

From:

conuly

You're right though, just once I would like to hear the android saying; "Why the hell would I want to downgrade myself to be human?"

Murderbot would like to have a word with you.

From:

siliconshaman

You'll forgive me if I'm a tad wary of talking to a person named Murderbot...

That said..I'd be a tad bit wary of talking to a human someone called, oh say.. Genghis Khan!

From:

conuly

Oh, but you must at least read the books.

Well... if you like snarky protags, that is. If you don't, don't bother.

From:

siliconshaman

Oh, I do.. I'll look out for those!

From:

peoriapeoriawhereart

Fortunately I'm fluent in both the original All Creatures Great and Small books and the old tv show; I think the new show has finesse to illuminate say as Pterry, Adams (of the Towel) or JNT.

From:

silveradept

And you know that as soon as there's a need for a non-human, they'll all be expectantly looking at the one who isn't to do something non-human.

Have you been watching Star Trek: Lower Decks? While Peanut Hamper has her own problems, she's absolutely cool with being her robotic self and doesn't want to ever become human or organic in any sort of way.

From:

conuly

I have not been watching it! I keep meaning to find somewhere to stream it from....

From:

silveradept

Peanut Hamper only appears in two episodes so far, but both of the episodes she's been in have definitely been "Boo, organics! Go, exocomps!" from her perspective.