Some people have been lying to get shots for their under-12s, or extra boosters for themselves

[conuly]

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/06/1025406861/coronavirus-faq-is-it-ethical-to-lie-to-get-a-booster-or-a-shot-for-an-under-12-

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/08/06/nation/lying-about-vaccination-status-crossing-state-lines-pretending-forget-id-some-people-are-going-intense-lengths-get-unauthorized-covid-booster-shots/

I won't say I wasn't tempted when I found out the city is giving out $100 for people getting their shots now.

Comments

Just fyi I will not do this

[8hyenas]

I'm very tempted to get my mother and I booster shots. We could easily just go outside the Indian Healthcare system and get a J&J dose to supplement our Pfizer from Jan.

I'm not persuaded by the "think of the rest of the world" argument since it seems to be a "the starving children" situation where the actions of the individual to consume or not doesn't actually address the scarcity.

I read an explanation that mathematically getting first time doses of the vaccine into people is WILDLY more successful at stopping death/global collapse/variants than boosters. I do hope on the basis of that it's not recommended officially.

Re: Just fyi I will not do this

[rmc28]

There is the system-level decision: boosters / vaccinating under-18s vs vaccinating more people around the world, and at that level, rich countries who've bought millions of doses absolutely would be better off distributing them around the world instead of giving booster shots, and I'm very happy to support calls for that decision at the system level.

But, at the individual level, if my country decides it's going to offer vaccines to my teenage child (I'm in the UK, we've gone from "only clinically-vulnerable under-18s" to "all 16+" in the space of two weeks, half expecting them to offer to 12+ before schools return in September), I will absolutely take it up rather than say "no no, they should be going abroad", because at that point it won't make any difference to the wider vaccination effort, but it will make a difference to my child.

Re: Just fyi I will not do this

[8hyenas]

Sounds good to me. I don’t think boosters and child vaccinations are quite the same when it comes to it. Child vaccinations are still first time doses so are a valuable use of the shot

[lilysea]

I 100% support teenagers whose parents have refused them permission to get vaccinated lying or crossing state lines to get vaccinated [different US states having different rules about parental permission]

the other scenarios, no.

Every single unvaccinated person is a potential for a new COVID variant that can arise - so right now, we're all better off vaccinating people in poorer countries than having booster shots.

[silveradept]

I'm not surprised that people are doing that, certainly, since they're thinking of themselves. I would like them to also then recognize the solution is to clear the way so that vaccine doses can be manufactured everywhere in the world so everyone has enough. And if someone's profits have to take a hit to do it, tough shit. Public health should be prioritized over private profits every time.

[mindstalk]

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/05/06/waiving-ip

[silveradept]

Which part of that article did you want me to take away from the most?

It starts with the reasons that IP waivers won't do much, really, because there's supply issues for components and a black of people and material to make the vaccine and finish it in other places. Which, okay, that makes sense, even if I then want that capacity to be built out during and after this pandemic so we don't have the same problem for the next one.

After that, there's a defense of the patent system as being more good than evil, which is an entirely separate debate that can be had at some other time. Past that is the argument that billions in profits are a small price to pay versus the incalculable costs of damages from lost lives and work, which is a valid way to frame the argument, but I feel there are also other valid ways to frame it. Making profit on something that is so necessary to defeating the pandemic seems ghoulish, but it might also be my cynicism about how the US health care system and insurance system is often looking to turn a profit by causing suffering in patients coming through.

There's also an argument to be made that things developed and funded with government research dollars should not be used to make profits solely for a single company, or that the profitability of it should be proportional to the amount of the company's own money they put into the process, but that could also be me lamenting the tragedy of the commons and the prevalent idea across many business sectors to make all the gains private and make the public soak any losses.

I'm still very glad that we have working vaccines, and that they are available to everyone who has been approved for them at no cost. I'm okay with a company recouping their investment made in the vaccine through sales revenue. Making profit on something that just about everyone needs to get seems inhumane without a demonstrated commitment of those profits into building more capacity for the next pandemic or sinking those profits into something like HIV vaccination research. Celebrating that you made profit when there's still a lot of people who still need vaccinating is a bad look.

[mindstalk]

> because there's supply issues for components and a black of people and material to make the vaccine and finish it in other places

That was my point. Lots of limiting factors to bulk vaccine production.

[silveradept]

Yeah, you can't synthesize components out of the air. Hopefully when this is more under control, they'll remember that there needs to be more capacity and we'll find and keep it up to date.