conuly | I'm a week late, but I just found out that Octavia Butler

is finally on the NY Times bestseller list.

In recognition of this, I googled up and found what is, hands down, one of the most infuriating Amazon reviews I've ever read. I cannot even articulate exactly what I find so mindbogglingly clueless about it, but every time this review pops into my head I want to find the man who wrote it and irritate him as much as his review has irritated me.

Well written and somewhat interesting, but it falls into what I consider a "quasi" SF genre. Both stories are essentially social commentaries and the "science" associated with them is minimal. The concept of writing socially sensitive stories within a SF framework is very common - most of Heinlein and Ellison's work is in that vein, just to name two. The problem I have is that the first story is closer to science fantasy than hard SF, and while the second deals with psionic powers, a traditional SF topic, it is so short that it was over before I really got into it. Its all a matter of taste, but I could not recommend the book.

As an aside, while the author is identified as famous within the SF circle, the circle referenced must be very small; as an avid SF reader since the late 50s and owner of over 2000 SF books I have never heard of her.

It's that little last aside that sends me over the top, the way he blithely assumes that she's not that famous rather than that he doesn't read widely enough.

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From:

sovay

as an avid SF reader since the late 50s and owner of over 2000 SF books I have never heard of her.

Well, then he wasn't a very good reader.

(It's very How to Suppress Women's Writing all over.)

Edited Date: 2020-09-08 07:19 pm (UTC)

From:

conuly

(It's very How to Suppress Women's Writing all over.)

Yup. You notice that his reference points in his review are Heinlein and Ellison.

From:

dewline

Clearly, that reviewer has not kept pace with the expansion of the genre. My reading tastes are limited somewhat, but I know enough to have heard of Butler. Friends of mine recommend her work, and I have read - if memory serves - at least one of her works back in high school. At the Regina Public Library.

She's not as obscure as this person believes or wants believed.

From:

sovay

You notice that his reference points in his review are Heinlein and Ellison.

I would have expected one of those names to be Le Guin, yes.

(Ellison is not an automatic dogwhistle for me because he was one of my touchstone writers; if your first choice for social science fiction is Heinlein, however, are you ever behind the times.)

From:

conuly

I'd go so far as to say that she's an enormous influence on the current crop of sci-fi and fantasy writers.

From:

conuly

It's not so much that I wish to disparage Ellison, it's just that... why not somebody who first published within the past 25 years, or even within the past 50? Harlan Ellison's first publication was in 1958. I know that to this reviewer, it might as well have been yesterday, but....

From:

sovay

I know that to this reviewer, it might as well have been yesterday, but....

I understand the significance of citing two mid-century dudes when there were so many more recent and relevant comparisons to make.

(And since this reviewer is petty enough to claim the number of books in his personal library as credentials of his knowledge of the field, I have way more than two thousand books in mine. And my parents had Butler's novels in theirs.)

Edited Date: 2020-09-08 07:53 pm (UTC)

From:

dewline

I'd say that you're correct.

From:

moon_custafer

…it falls into what I consider a "quasi" SF genre. Both stories are essentially social commentaries and the "science" associated with them is minimal. The concept of writing socially sensitive stories within a SF framework is very common - most of Heinlein and Ellison's work is in that vein, just to name two. The problem I have is that the first story is closer to science fantasy than hard SF, and while the second deals with psionic powers, a traditional SF topic, it is so short that it was over before I really got into it.

The logic seems to be:
1. It’s not hard SF, it’s social commentary
2. OK, so two SF authors I respect wrote SF that was primarily social commentary, but
3. One of the stories is more Fantasy than SF, and the other deals with psionic powers
4. OK, psionic powers are a classic SF trope, but the story was too short

That’s a lot of benchmark-shuffling to say “ok, but not my personal cup of tea.”

From:

conuly

I'm pretty sure I have more books than that in my kindle, and my kindle reads represent only a fraction of my lifetime reads.

From:

alexseanchai

it's also very first-edition cover of Joanna Russ's How to Suppress Women's Writing

From:

wpadmirer

OMG, what an ignoramus! He may own over 2,000 SF books, but if he hasn't heard of Butler, he's not all that well-read.

From:

readerjane

That was the first thing I noticed, yes.

Heinlein was one of my favorite writers when I was in Jr high. (Which is sort of like saying, burgers were a favorite food when every meal available came from the diner.)

From:

gatheringrivers

Didn't Asimov alone write something close to that number of books?

(I have also read Heinlein and Ellison, but they ARE a product of their times, shall we say...)

From:

blueswan

Curious how someone familiar with SF can't know Octavia Butler, as she has won Hugos and Nebulas. Seriously, not just one, multiple wins. The reviewer has hopefully been called on this. I have books by her on my shelves along with Heinlein and Ellison.

From:

moon_custafer

My spouse has way more than 2000 sf texts, heavily skewed to wards the early-to-mid 20th-century, and he’s certainly aware of Butler.

From:

conuly

Yo, I can't even. If you'd like to say it to them, I can link to the review.

From:

wendelah1

She's really well-known. She's won several awards, including a MacArthur genius grant. She has a wing devoted to her papers at the Huntington Library. That guy is a total ignoramus.

From:

conuly

That's what I told him.

From:

conuly

(I have also read Heinlein and Ellison, but they ARE a product of their times, shall we say...)

And they don't always age well. Well, that's true for a great many authors who were giants in their field.

From:

conuly

Oh, I know.

From:

altamira16

I read Heinlein in high school. I don't think that I would be able to overlook the misogyny now. I think it annoyed me a little then too, but I think it would annoy me a lot more now.

From:

blueswan

I wouldn't mind a link, but I will try to restrain my comments. I don't want to be followed home by anyone, you know. :)

From:

conuly

https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/RUQNPZ0NWFCVD/ref=cm_cr_getr_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00K04NWG0

It's been a year since I left my comment, so it's not likely you'll get a response.

From:

silveradept

I am unsurprised at this review and the ignorance it displays, given that this reads strongly like someone saying "since a woman wrote it, it can't possibly be SF. I might be willing to call it fantasy if I'm feeling generous."

I'm betting you found someone who would complain long and loud about the AO3 Hugo, as well, and how the place was just better before we let all the Other in.