Everybody is complaining about panic buyers and hoarders

[conuly]

but nobody admits to doing it or knowing anybody who has - at most, they fess up to buying a little extra toilet paper (rice, peanut butter, soup...) after they got word they'd have to "shelter in place" or they noticed empty shelves at their local store.

When I point out that it sure sounds like there wasn't much widespread panic buying, they go "Oh, just look at the shelves!"

The thing is, while it's self-evident that widespread hoarding and panic buying will lead to empty shelves, the converse doesn't follow. Empty shelves can be caused by lots of things, most simply, everybody in an area independently deciding to buy one extra package of toilet paper etc. or choosing to go shopping every month instead of twice a week. In the first case, nobody is buying much more than usual, but because EVERYBODY is buying a small amount more than usual, the shelves empty. In the second case, people making the entirely rational choice to stay home as much as possible are getting dinged for purchasing exactly what they need to do that. And, I'm sorry, but I don't think anybody can honestly say they think that having two, three, or four weeks worth of food and toilet paper in the home is evidence of a hoarding mentality. Not even during usual times.

Empty shelves can also indicate the actions of profiteers who have decided to stock up and sell later. This IS hoarding, I suppose - but it's not panic buying. It's profiteering.

Empty shelves can also indicate issues somewhere along the supply line, but in the US at least it doesn't look like we're there yet.

The trouble is, once people see empty shelves they make the entirely rational decision to stock up a little more than they'd already planned, thus causing the crisis they want to avoid. This is a troubling cycle, but it's not irrational either.

So unless you can point to an actual person in your area who bought out a stock of staple goods "just in case", more than they could reasonably use in a month or twice their normal shopping period, whichever is the greater time period, please stop talking about the stupid crazy irrational panic shoppers who are keeping you from eating pasta. (Eyewitness evidence of somebody making multiple trips to buy the same product don't count unless you spoke to this person and confirmed that they're not, say, running errands for elderly or otherwise vulnerable people who should not leave the house at all if they can help it.) Bonus points if that person did it before shelves emptied where you are.

Comments

[redbird]

This is especially true since the CDC was advising people to stock up on food: it's not just that being told to stay home, I bought extra cans of beans.

[the_siobhan]

Somebody told me today that the reason why paper products were in short supply for the first month is that manufacturers split their product into separate streams for household use and workplaces/schools - which makes sense, most office, factory and school bathrooms have those big wheel dispensers.

So with everybody suddenly pooping at home they ran low on the household version and it's just taking them a bit of time to get caught up. Most stores here are pretty much back to normal.

[redbird]

It's also not irrational to buy what would normally be two months' supply of canned beans, if you may be unable to go out and buy eggs, meat, fish, or cheese.

[ioplokon]

Oh I guess people had different experiences? I saw people like legit getting in fist fights and stealing stuff out of other people's carts? So I assumed that's what everyone meant by "panic buying"????

TBF tho, I do live in SoCal, which is the fucking worst.

[lightbird]

Yep, where I am too they've caught up on paper products. The only thing they don't have, and seem to be lagging on getting caught up on, are the disinfectant wipes and antibacterial soap. Which makes sense.

[alexcat]

MY BIL went to a local butcher shop and people were buying 30 - 40 pounds of hamburger at a shot. I pretty much call that hoarding. Many of our stores have put limits on goods since people were buying such large amounts of everything.

[conuly]

Maybe. I know people who routinely buy beef a cow or half a cow at a time.

[conuly]

And it makes sense to stock up on food if you're going to be staying home.

[conuly]

Now, that's ridiculous. Here, people definitely did start upticking their shopping as school closing loomed, but there was more community spirit in the shopping - people helping each other reach items really far back on the shelf, stuff like that.

[alexseanchai]

someone I follow on Facebook shared something like "I don't panic-buy, share if you can say the same" and I explained basically that (less eloquently though) and she told me no, she really was just buying what she usually needs, which I am not sure whether to believe (and if it's true, I hope it doesn't backfire on her on account of she runs out of something important and can't resupply), but whatever

and therefore I tweeted this:

how to conjugate an irregular verb:

I stock up

YOU overpurchase

SHE panic-buys

[alexseanchai]

that and the amount that would ordinarily last a given household a month assumes things like, the kids are spending school days at school. using school toilet paper for a significant fraction of their toilet paper needs, instead of home toilet paper all the time.

of course the household is going to go through toilet paper faster than usual.

and both of those are before factoring in that sensible people are planning to go grocery shopping less frequently, and therefore need to buy more toilet paper per trip in order to maintain the same total toilet paper bought per month.

[alexcat]

I do as well but I don't think it's the norm for here. 10 Pounds maybe... but not lots more. But I do agree that everyone is buying more because we are being told to stock up for 2-3 weeks OR that this item or that item is in short supply locally - like toilet paper.

[silveradept]

One of those things where everyone is rational to themselves and irrational to everyone else?

[the_siobhan]

You also can't know how many people those 30-40 pounds are going to feed. Lots of people around here are offering to purchase items for people who can't (or shouldn't) go to the store for themselves, especially since there is now a two to three week wait time for deliveries.

[the_siobhan]

Our household doesn't have a car, so our normal mode of shopping is to book a carshare once every two to three months and stock up on bulky or heavy things - things like laundry detergent, cat litter, and toilet paper.

Somebody seeing us throwing a half dozen of those multipacks into the back of car would probably think we were hoarding, but that's just a normal but infrequent event for us. (And we just happened to get lucky with the timing, so we haven't needed to stock up since the lockdown started.)

[the_siobhan]

Perfect.

[marahmarie]

the stupid crazy irrational panic shoppers who are keeping you from eating pasta

But PASTA. They're wiping the shelves clean where I live of it but it's one of the few things I can't figure out. Then again, I had a massive amount (for me: a few small shelves worth) I'd put together all year long so maybe perspective's everything. Starting from a box or two (or none) on your own shelf, you might want to build up to what I had say, "all at once", if it's going to carry you through a month or two of being unable - or unwilling - to get back to the store.

Still - seeing pasta shelves empty bites in a way even toilet paper hasn't bit me, so far.

[marahmarie]

It is exactly that and (as maddening as it can be) entirely normal; it's how we're wired. Saw an article on it somewhere. I'm at least fair about it (and fairly honest): If I'm gonna "stock up" then hey, you should too; when it's gone it's gone que sera sera (though I'm not nearly as happy about it as that might imply I'm...being fair).

Just don't touch the pasta.

[highlyeccentric]

My understanding is that there was an initial rush of panic-buying (or pre-emptive stocking) in inner city Sydney and Melbourne in late February, long before anything shut down, specifically focused on toilet paper. This may have been because people had heard about a TP shortage in Hong Kong and extrapolated. Photographs of both the shelves and individuals buying trolleys full of TP went viral, spread to the rest of Aus and then abroad. (So in Aus particularly you got this thing where toilet paper stocks were critical a full MONTH before people were mass bulk-buying beans and pasta)

That bizarro blip then ran headlong into the actual supply chain problems of urban stores not having substantial stockrooms and rural stores needing longer to adjust their supply orders, meaning that 'panic buying' became a great excuse for 'the system was in no way calibrated for this'. Naturally supermarkets prefer to have that explanation being discussed than the operational explanations, and here we are.

[conuly]

of course the household is going to go through toilet paper faster than usual.

Especially if their parents bought a lot of beans and rice, much more than they do in typical months.

[conuly]

:)

[conuly]

Mmhm.

But honestly, no matter how we define "panic buying" I don't think there really was that much of until after shelves were empty of key items.

[conuly]

Pasta keeps, and you can eat it - unlike toilet paper.

[conuly]

(Plus, it's less likely to set the house on fire if you have to use it to light a sticky gas burner.)

[ruuger]

Yeah, in Finland I'd say that the main reason for empty shelves wasn't panic buying or hoarding, it was because loads of people (especially in cities) realised that they don't have more than a few days worth of supplies and then all bought two weeks worth of supplies at once. I'm originally from the countryside, so I'm used to always having at least two weeks of supplies, but I slowly upped it to a month's worth of supplies just in case already a couple of weeks before the 'panic buying'. If everyone had done the same, and bought their stockpiles earlier and in smaller batches, there would be no shortage.

Especially about the toilet paper people fail to take into account that when people work from home/children don't go to school, *they use a lot more toiletpaper* so you should 'hoard' it instead of going to the store every other day to get more. I've also been appalled by the ableism (and sexism) in a lot of the discussion when people (read: men) mock and refuse to believe those who say they need to use more toiletpaper than "one roll a month" (actual quote).