Okay, look. Either use singular they or don't use singular they

[conuly]

But if your first step is "each player takes a score sheet and places it in front of themself" you really cannot then go on and have all other instructions use "he" for the generic player!

Comments

[rivendellrose]

Speaking as a professional editor, oh my god that hurts my brain. WHY.

To clarify: That is a WHY on mixing the two, not at all a why on singular they. I am totally a proponent of singular they.

..."He" as generic, I am totally against, but if people really insist on using it I can't stop them. So long as they do it consistently.

[conuly]

I can answer the why - one person preferred singular they, their editor didn't, but somehow missed that example. Probably they just did a search and replace.

[rivendellrose]

Oh dear. I was really hoping that was not going to be the editor's fault. Find/replace is useful, but it doesn't take the place of actually doing the work... and all the major style guides have accepted singular they, at this point, so if this is something published in the last few years then this editor needs to get their head out of the past. :P

[conuly]

I don't know that this is the issue, but it seems likely.

[conuly]

What's really funny is that I actually find the sentence I gave to be extremely awkward. I'm still not sure I like "themself" (though I recognize that it fits an obvious lexical gap and certainly don't have any better word) and, at any rate, would have said "Each player takes a score sheet" without spelling out what they should do with said sheet.

[rivendellrose]

I don't know the context, but I might suggest simply "each player takes a score sheet," unless it's for some reason both important and not clear that the player would then have the score sheet in front of them.

[conuly]

Yup, pretty much. And I prefer that to any variation that includes a reflexive, even the ones I'm more used to. I mean, what do we THINK players are doing with their scoresheets, making paper airplanes?

[cellio]

That's how this professional writer would write it.

[chelseagirl]

Oooh, that's what I'm still trying to figure out. Themself or themselves?

[conuly]

It's gotta be "themself", same as the reflexive for singular you is "yourself". (Remember, at one time singular you was "thou".)

But it hits me as "awkward" in a way that singular they, even for a specific and identified person, just doesn't. Probably because we use the reflexive less and I'm just less used to it overall.

[chelseagirl]

Yes, I'm sure that's correct but it doesn't sound right . . . yet.

But then, language is constantly evolving, so . . . .

[calimac]

All players take score sheets and place them in front of themselves.

Only way to get that wording in, but then it becomes awkward to say that each player has only one score sheet.

[conuly]

"Distribute one score sheet to each player. Instruct players to place score sheets in front of them on the table."

[siderea]

That kind of error is often evidence of a committee at work (and no editorial oversight). The person who wrote that line had one standard, the person who wrote the other lines had another.

Or put another way, the "they" who wrote it was perhaps a plural they, not a singular they.

[conuly]

Given how short the instructions for this game were, I'm not sure that it would've made sense to have different people write it.

[malada]

Gee, why not just use "she" for the generic player?

And watch all the tough male snowflake get all butt hurt.

-m
Heheheheheheheh

[havocthecat]

White Wolf (and its various iterations as the IP has been sold and resold over the years) has been bouncing gloriously between pronouns deliberately and developed a strong female and queer and genderqueer following for good reasons.

Just saying.

(To be fair, I haven't followed WoD 5E because OH HOLY FUCK sometimes enough is enough and also they had some missteps.)

[conuly]

MTE.

[cellio]

Argh. Be consistent, people!

But at least they get credit for the proper use of "themself". If you're asserting singular they, you need to use the singular form there.

The vast majority of the time, in my experience, you can write around a problematic pronoun problem and omit pronouns entirely, without loss of clarity or fidelity. What you describe is a sign of an inexperienced writer, a committee, and/or someone (maybe two someones) trying to force an issue to the forefront.

[silveradept]

Grah. Someone didn't proof properly to know they needed to ask.

I, personally, would like they to become default and gendered ones used only when it's appropriate.

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

I would do everything I had to do in order to only use plural they. "All players take score sheets and place them in front of themselves"; how hard is that?