That feeling when somebody you know turns out to be hugely TERF-y

[conuly]

...

Listen, if you can't figure out a way to support LGB without bashing T, then maaaaaaybe you're the problem in this scenario, not the ~.5% of the population that identifies as transgender.

Note: This isn't an open debate. Or an any sort of debate, really.

Comments

[jesuswasbatman]

Is this over what happened at London Pride yesterday?

[conuly]

Yup.

[alexseanchai]

preach

[conuly]

ugh why is everybody on the internet the worst today except the people here?

[dewline]

Agreed.

(I've heard vague third-hand reports about London Pride with not much detail so far.)

[conuly]

I don't... really... want the details?

[ioplokon]

Seriously! And like, honestly the ideological bedrock of transphobia is so suspect (like, either uber-gender essentializing or like reifying socialization/childhood as destiny - often both in turn! - but always disturbingly deterministic). Plus, to me, if your philosophy doesn't give preferential weight to the voices and needs of those most vulnerable in society, it needs some serious re-working.

[conuly]

Or they go to "oh, well, it's wrong to tell kids that if they play with trucks/dolls the must be boys/girls" and that's... I mean... nobody is doing that and that's not what it means?

[naye]

Right?! And what do they think they'd accomplish anyway? Like biological determinism is something to be championing. Ew. No. TERFs are the worst.

[conuly]

And when they're not doing that they're going "well, accepting transgenders just makes gender essentialism worse" and it's... like... as I understand it, they don't (or aren't supposed to) make you turn in your trans card if you decide you still like wearing nail polish/hate wearing nail polish (delete whichever is inappropriate).

[stardreamer]

I really, really like the Urban Dictionary definition of TERF: "Women who believe that the 'biology is destiny' argument is horrible and invalid when someone else uses it on them, but perfectly legitimate when they use it on someone else."

Which, in turn, suggests a form of counter-argument that might work: "So when are you going to quit your job and start raising a dozen kids?"

[greghousesgf]

I don't get some people, I really don't.

[conuly]

You and me both.

[sabotabby]

I have to limit myself to one (1) flamewar about this daily or violate local fire ordinances.

Why can't people just...not care what is in the pants/skirts of strangers whom'st they are not fucking? Is it so hard? I do not even know what the genitals of 90% of my friends look like, let alone know or care whether some random lady on the street has a dick. FFS.

[conuly]

Why can't people just...not care what is in the pants/skirts of strangers whom'st they are not fucking?

Because if some other woman dares to date/fuck another woman and one or both of them has a penis then all TRUE LESBIANS are actually being erased off the face of the planet. THE PLANET!

Also, when people suggested that same-sex marriage is wrong because OF THE DICTIONARY that's totally garbage, but when we say that transgender women/men are still women/men and that transgender gays are not suddenly straight, then we're wrong because THE DICTIONARY.

[rhoda_rants]

I'm starting to find Pride just exhausting these days and it's because of crap like this. That's....well I dunno what word to apply in this situation exactly, but it sucks.

[siderea]

I love this discussion and everyone in it.

[monanotlisa]

Oh no. What a disappointment.

It's such a blow: to learn someone in your circles is hateful for no reason at all.

[conuly]

Yeah.

[elisi]

Hear hear!

[fred_mouse]

^all of this. At least, the bits that are affirming to humans being themselves without prescriptivists getting involve.

[larryhammer]

And then there are those who ostensibly support T but do it in a way that bashes I.

(That's probably derailing, isn't it...)

[conuly]

Why can't we all just get along.

[novel_machinist]

SAY IT AGAIN FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!

[akycha]

Jesus Harriet Christ screaming "PURITY POLITICS ARE A FORM OF VIOLENCE" into a megaphone as part of a performance art piece.

[silveradept]

Not a debate at all. The T is vitally important.

[spikethemuffin]

Ugh. I'm on Pinterest, and Pinterest thinks I LOVE TERF bullshit pins because I keep saying, "Um. Source, please? Credible source?" or "What you are saying about puberty blockers is demonstrably incorrect. Please do not quote Jesse Singal or Blaire White as a reputable source on the subject as they are literal fearmongers," and Pinterest keeps saying "YOU COMMENT ON THESE PINS YOU LOVE THESE PINS." It's seriously souring me on my favorite social medium, where I am kind of a medium-sized deal.

The worst, for me, is that they're picking up the narrative of "a transwoman said a shady thing to me and therefore THEY ARE ALL FULL OF RAPE." And I'm trying to figure out whether there's an abusive transperson or subculture out there (which is possible: I believe "asshole" transcends lines of gender, creed, color, socioeconomic background, everything) and I am participating in this abuse by saying, "Hi, is this a thing you personally experienced?"; or the TERFs are couching their bigotry in the language of abuse survivors to make themselves unquestionable. And I think of my mind-blowingly cool but brain-twistingly young artist friend Sara being exposed to either end of this spectrum and I just want to put her and the cats in a safe place and burn the world down.

[conuly]

There definitely has to be a non-zero number of abusive transpeople out there. Shitty people are gonna be shitty. This is an unfortunate fact of life, and though we'd like it if hardship meant people never were it doesn't seem to work like that. But I mean....

[peristaltor]

I had to look up TERF.

I'm old and way out of touch.

[cellio]

Ugh. :-(