The girls were watching Princess Bride the other day

[conuly]

I used to like that movie just as much as the next person - it is very quotable, after all - but one day, apropos of absolutely nothing, I looked around and said "That movie is really pretty misogynistic, isn't it?" and ever since then I haven't been able to get into it. I can watch the occasional scene, but I can't see it the whole way through.

I don't say this because I want to be argued out of my position, or because I want to convince you of it, just because that's how it went. One day I could watch that movie and the next day - never again!

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Comments

[hudebnik]

No, one doesn't watch "Princess Bride" for the strong, self-actualized and motivated female role-model characters. I made my peace with that a long time ago.

Of course, one doesn't read Lord of the Rings for the strong, self-actualized and motivated female role-model characters -- or female characters at all.

If you need a palate-cleanser, try "Enchanted" or "Brave". "Enchanted" has the unpalatable trope of the leading man ditching his older, less-pretty, sort-of-boring girlfriend for a younger, prettier one, but the former comes out OK herself, and the latter is reasonably bright, is the protagonist rather than just an object, and undergoes real character development.

[mindstalk]

LotR has Eowyn and Galadriel. Small parts of the book, but high impact. Plus Ioreth, Lobelia, Rose, and Arwen for other women who at least exist. Aragorn's mom in the appendices, though IIRC she mostly gives birth and dies.

"And Shelob".

Hobbit OTOH has exactly 0 identified women, though IIRC it did start as bedtime stories for his sons, so it's almost literally Boys Adventure For Boys. Silmarillion goes the other way.

[conuly]

I made my peace with it too. By not watching it. *shrugs*

[archangelbeth]

I kind of love Brave. But mostly because the mom has a pretty big character arc as well, and some bad@$$ stuff to do. (Disclaimer: I am a mom.) And also looks EXACTLY LIKE A FRIEND OF OURS, HAIR AND ROBE AND ALL. O_O (Well, when said friend is costumed for conventions, anyway.)

(I thought the First Girlfriend was pretty, in Enchanted! Just differently pretty. IIRC the movie.)

[hudebnik]

First Girlfriend is attractive in the way that you don't get into a Hollywood movie without. She looks human, adult, just a touch healthier, cleaner, and more symmetrical than the people you see around you every day. Attractive enough that you can believe that Male Lead is involved with her.

Female Lead starts out strikingly, dazzlingly, juvenilely *pretty*, then looks and acts gradually more human and adult as the movie goes on, so by the climactic costume-ball scene she's a strikingly, dazzlingly beautiful adult woman who makes the rest of the room fade into the background.

It's the same trope as Hermione Grainger arriving at the Christmas Ball suddenly looking like a (young) woman. The innocent girl next door has grown up and can now be seen as a sex object without feeling kinky. It's a very appealing fantasy, to the straight-male default audience (which I happen to be), but my politically correct side has to wonder how many gender-flipped examples of this trope there are: a cute-little-boy male character who suddenly looks mature and sexy. Nominations?

Actually, I guess there's something of the same effect on Male Lead in "Enchanted!", albeit less dramatic than on Female Lead: he's always been clearly adult, but in that scene he's suddenly SEXY.

[archangelbeth]

*ponder*

CLAMP has occasional "cute-then-turns-heart-fluttery" stuff, though I suspect it's what happens when their male lead suddenly does a Display Of Competence And Determination? Or both. Manga, of course, and all-gal manga-group.

Shows up in romances a lot, though more in flashbacks (and text, not visuals): "Jane has come home from college to deal with family matters before she runs off to the big city again, and discovers that scrawny Fred has filled out, working on the farm. Will Fred's sudden eye-candy appearance distract her from her mission to Sell The House, move her parents to an urban nursing home, and get back to New York? Fred's never forgotten how Jane looked as Prom Queen, and he'd like to change her mind..."

[spikethemuffin]

I'm more Howl's Moving Castle for palate-cleansing, book or movie, although book is to be preferred. Or Spirited Away. But I loved how first-girlfriend was actually someone's True Love and found her place, too. How often do you see the women who were designed to be cast off as part of a character arc valued and appreciated?

[conuly]

Now, I like DWJ as much as anybody else, and quite a bit more than most, but I've always found the denouement in Moving Castle to be a little opaque. It interferes with the enjoyment. (Plus, DWJ was a wonderful woman, and a fantastic writer, but she couldn't write romance to save her life and in some books it really, really shows.)

[spikethemuffin]

Agreed.