Ho-hum. Silly assumptions on feminist

[conuly]

There's a discussion over there about women who abort for birth defects of various sorts, and how some of them have said things such as "I don't want to be with these women who don't want their children, I want this child" (tangent, if you wanted the child, you'd have it. You want a different child. Whether or not the choice is the correct one for you to make, the fact is that you found out you were pregnant and decided, for good or bad reasons, that on the whole you'd rather have a child who was normal/healthy and definitely not THIS child who wasn't.)

Anyway, one person said that "there's no such thing as baby killing and it's horrible that the religious right blames all such abortions on people who want "perfect babies" and abort for minor birth defects". Or something like that, it's not a real quote. So of course, I point out that 1. there are baby killings, infanticide does exist, but infanticide != abortion and 2. as it happens, the number of abortions for minor birth defects such as cleft lip have been going up (if you're curious, I got this either from the BBC or the NYTimes).

Well, now she has to get righteously indignant. Oh, how horrible, how can I possibly say such a thing, is it any of my business why some poor woman had an abortion, and on and on and on.

Look. I didn't fucking SAY it matters why any woman aborts. In fact, I think that whatever your reason for having an abortion, if you don't want a child you shouldn't have it. If you don't want the child because it's going to have blue eyes instead of brown (and let's pretend there's a way to test for it) - it's a stupid reason, sure, and I would understand finding it morally reprehensible, but it's better to abort than to leave the poor kid always knowing his/her parents didn't really want him/her, they wanted a perfect baby.

Don't have children you don't want. I don't care what your reason is for not wanting the kid, don't have children you don't want. You follow that rule, and I'll keep supporting "a woman's right to choose" (which, while I do support it, is as obnoxious a slogan as "a baby's right to life" - I know what the purpose is behind slogans, but I hate phrases that make the other group look like the Bad Guys who are Evil Incarnate and Kick Puppies)

Comments

[catsluvdmb.livejournal.com]

Or perhaps kick chickens? I'm assuming you heard about this already but if not... (http://www.newsobserver.com/print/thursday/front/story/1453351p-7589108c.html)

[conuly]

Wow. PETA did something right.

[catsluvdmb.livejournal.com]

HAHA, I know, I was shocked too. It was all people were talking about at work today (I work for a poultry research company).

[ladytalon.livejournal.com]

There's something I could say here about broken clocks and twice a day and all, but I actually hate that phrase. *takes an anti-trite pill*

PETA is so powerful, and they could have so much potential, but they go after the wrong targets (e.g., trying to change towns' names). Pity.

[marveen.livejournal.com]

Don't have children you don't want. I don't care what your reason is for not wanting the kid, don't have children you don't want. You follow that rule, and I'll keep supporting "a woman's right to choose" (which, while I do support it, is as obnoxious a slogan as "a baby's right to life" - I know what the purpose is behind slogans, but I hate phrases that make the other group look like the Bad Guys who are Evil Incarnate and Kick Puppies)

Just as a musing thought, have you run across the Woman's Right To Change Her Mind yet? After all, you get tons of immature mothers who like the cute little baby with the dressup clothes, but when it comes to actually PARENTING decide they don't want to travel this road anymore.

[conuly]

I'm not getting into people who think they want kids but really don't want the hassle. I'm just talking about people who know they don't want children/this specific child/kids at this time. What I mean is "if you have an abortion, I promise not to care why. Really and truly." If you think you want a kid, and then realize that you made a bad choice... then you've got some problems to sort out, and fast, because that kid ain't gettin' any younger.

[georgiapeachy.livejournal.com]

No matter how much people deny it abortion is and will continue to be used for eugenic like purposes. In fact it will continue to get "worse" and our knowledge of genetics and the ability to detect "defects" improves. Yes, our ability to detect illnesses in the womb can and will save lives, but I believe the number of abortions of "defective" babies will increase. Unfortunately I am a "defect" and so are you as we have aspergers, which will probably not be detectable in the near future, but I fiind it disturbing that people might one day abort people like us even though like many people with disorders we can be intelligent and contribute to the world. Banning abortions cannnot solve this problem, in the future people who want perfect babies will find a way to get them.

[zarriq.livejournal.com]

From dictionary.com:
eugenics
u·gen·ics (y-jnks)
n.

The study of hereditary improvement of the human race by controlled selective breeding.

Uh... try again. Unless somebody is forcing the pregnant woman in question to terminate.

[georgiapeachy.livejournal.com]

Don't you agree that if you eliminate "defects" you are in theory improving the human race? Lovely Margaret Sanger and many other birth control pioneers were big fans of eugenics. More recently a lot of abortion advocates praised a 2001 Stanford University study that associated increased abortions in poor women and teenage girls with recent crime, so abortion, even if it is not eugenics, is achieving the aims of it.
What makes you think eugenics is forced? In many instances it wasn't and it was a very popular idea earlier in the 20th century, especially among upper and middle classes. I own an antique bestselling book (Safe Counsel) from the early 1900s about how "you can contribute to the improvement of the human race through eugenics" complete with Margaret Sanger's endorsement and endorsement of abortion as part of eugenics. I also did a research paper on how a lot of past abortion opponents did not oppose abortion among the lower “diseased” classes and minorities, they only worried about upper/middle class women having them and depriving humanity of “good specimens.”

[georgiapeachy.livejournal.com]

Not to mention the trash that is dictionary.com

Compare with Oxford English Dictionary's Definition
[f. Gr. {epsilon}{ulenis}- (see EU-) + root {gamma}{epsilon}{nu}- to produce (Gr. had {epsilon}{ulenis}{gamma}{epsilon}{nu}{ghacu}{fsigma} well-born) + -IC.]

A. adj. Pertaining or adapted to the production of fine offspring, esp. in the human race.

1883 F. GALTON Hum. Faculty 24 Various topics more or less connected with that of the cultivation of race, or as we might call it, with ‘eugenic’ questions. 1886 G. ALLEN in Fortn. Rev. 1 Oct. 458 The result..would be as bad..if he made the choice [of a wife] himself on abstract biological and ‘Eugenic’ principles.


B. n. in pl. [after analogy of economics, politics, etc.] The science which has this for its object.

1883 F. GALTON Hum. Faculty 44 The investigation of human eugenics, that is, of the conditions under which men of a high type are produced. 1890 Univ. Rev. May 54 People will fall in love, in spite of your eugenics.

Nothing about it having to be controlled by anyone, eugenic principals can be a personal choice IE if you are unfit you should use birth control or chose to be "voluntary asexualization" (Safe Counsel publishing originally in 1893, but published and purchased until the late 20th century)

[catsluvdmb.livejournal.com]

Or perhaps kick chickens? I'm assuming you heard about this already but if not... (http://www.newsobserver.com/print/thursday/front/story/1453351p-7589108c.html)

[conuly]

Wow. PETA did something right.

[catsluvdmb.livejournal.com]

HAHA, I know, I was shocked too. It was all people were talking about at work today (I work for a poultry research company).

[ladytalon.livejournal.com]

There's something I could say here about broken clocks and twice a day and all, but I actually hate that phrase. *takes an anti-trite pill*

PETA is so powerful, and they could have so much potential, but they go after the wrong targets (e.g., trying to change towns' names). Pity.

[marveen.livejournal.com]

Don't have children you don't want. I don't care what your reason is for not wanting the kid, don't have children you don't want. You follow that rule, and I'll keep supporting "a woman's right to choose" (which, while I do support it, is as obnoxious a slogan as "a baby's right to life" - I know what the purpose is behind slogans, but I hate phrases that make the other group look like the Bad Guys who are Evil Incarnate and Kick Puppies)

Just as a musing thought, have you run across the Woman's Right To Change Her Mind yet? After all, you get tons of immature mothers who like the cute little baby with the dressup clothes, but when it comes to actually PARENTING decide they don't want to travel this road anymore.

[conuly]

I'm not getting into people who think they want kids but really don't want the hassle. I'm just talking about people who know they don't want children/this specific child/kids at this time. What I mean is "if you have an abortion, I promise not to care why. Really and truly." If you think you want a kid, and then realize that you made a bad choice... then you've got some problems to sort out, and fast, because that kid ain't gettin' any younger.

[georgiapeachy.livejournal.com]

No matter how much people deny it abortion is and will continue to be used for eugenic like purposes. In fact it will continue to get "worse" and our knowledge of genetics and the ability to detect "defects" improves. Yes, our ability to detect illnesses in the womb can and will save lives, but I believe the number of abortions of "defective" babies will increase. Unfortunately I am a "defect" and so are you as we have aspergers, which will probably not be detectable in the near future, but I fiind it disturbing that people might one day abort people like us even though like many people with disorders we can be intelligent and contribute to the world. Banning abortions cannnot solve this problem, in the future people who want perfect babies will find a way to get them.

[zarriq.livejournal.com]

From dictionary.com:
eugenics
u·gen·ics (y-jnks)
n.

The study of hereditary improvement of the human race by controlled selective breeding.

Uh... try again. Unless somebody is forcing the pregnant woman in question to terminate.

[georgiapeachy.livejournal.com]

Don't you agree that if you eliminate "defects" you are in theory improving the human race? Lovely Margaret Sanger and many other birth control pioneers were big fans of eugenics. More recently a lot of abortion advocates praised a 2001 Stanford University study that associated increased abortions in poor women and teenage girls with recent crime, so abortion, even if it is not eugenics, is achieving the aims of it.
What makes you think eugenics is forced? In many instances it wasn't and it was a very popular idea earlier in the 20th century, especially among upper and middle classes. I own an antique bestselling book (Safe Counsel) from the early 1900s about how "you can contribute to the improvement of the human race through eugenics" complete with Margaret Sanger's endorsement and endorsement of abortion as part of eugenics. I also did a research paper on how a lot of past abortion opponents did not oppose abortion among the lower “diseased” classes and minorities, they only worried about upper/middle class women having them and depriving humanity of “good specimens.”

[georgiapeachy.livejournal.com]

Not to mention the trash that is dictionary.com

Compare with Oxford English Dictionary's Definition
[f. Gr. {epsilon}{ulenis}- (see EU-) + root {gamma}{epsilon}{nu}- to produce (Gr. had {epsilon}{ulenis}{gamma}{epsilon}{nu}{ghacu}{fsigma} well-born) + -IC.]

A. adj. Pertaining or adapted to the production of fine offspring, esp. in the human race.

1883 F. GALTON Hum. Faculty 24 Various topics more or less connected with that of the cultivation of race, or as we might call it, with ‘eugenic’ questions. 1886 G. ALLEN in Fortn. Rev. 1 Oct. 458 The result..would be as bad..if he made the choice [of a wife] himself on abstract biological and ‘Eugenic’ principles.


B. n. in pl. [after analogy of economics, politics, etc.] The science which has this for its object.

1883 F. GALTON Hum. Faculty 44 The investigation of human eugenics, that is, of the conditions under which men of a high type are produced. 1890 Univ. Rev. May 54 People will fall in love, in spite of your eugenics.

Nothing about it having to be controlled by anyone, eugenic principals can be a personal choice IE if you are unfit you should use birth control or chose to be "voluntary asexualization" (Safe Counsel publishing originally in 1893, but published and purchased until the late 20th century)