Quick question -

[conuly]

I know it's not true that bullies really have low self-esteem and don't love themselves, but is it really true that they're all cowards deep inside? I can find online information on the one but not the other, just repeated assertions of same.

Comments

[nicki]

No, they are not all cowards. There are different types of bullying.

[siderea]

I am under the impression that it's not true, but I have no cites to back that with.

My understanding is that some bullies are cowards, some are not; some have low self-esteem and don't love themselves, and some don't have low self-esteem and do love themselves.

That said self-esteem != self-love, and the low self-esteem thing is the way to bet with bullies. But then, approximately nobody using the term self-esteem correctly any more.

[conuly]

But then, approximately nobody using the term self-esteem correctly any more.

You can't just end a comment that way and not clarify.

[siderea]

There will be a big post on it eventually.

Short form: it's like esteem. Only for yourself.

Slightly less short form: think what it means to esteem someone. It's not the same as love. It's not even the same as like. It's not really about affection at all. Now apply that concept self-reflexively.

Even less short form: The dude who initially wrote about self-esteem is completely horrified by what has been made of his work. I really like his work, and think it's highly valuable.

He likes to use the formulation, "self-esteem is your reputation with yourself." He is a staunch believer in the idea that you get self-esteem by earning it – by proving things to yourself.

In this original sense of "self-esteem", there's really not much anybody else can say to you to change your self-esteem, except maybe draw your attention to under/over recognized accomplishments. All of the goofy things people think they're doing to "help kids self-esteem" are at best completely pointless, because they are, at best, about other esteem. Telling someone they're awesome only convinces them that you think they're awesome.

Real self-esteem is based on things like whether one feels one can rely on oneself, whether one keeps promises to oneself, whether one experiences oneself as knowable, whether one judges one's conduct to be in congruence with one's values.

None of these things can be changed or even touched by flattering anyone, not even kids.

ETA: And to the extent that kids bully because they were themselves mistreated at home, those bullies probably experience themselves to be of low worth and low ability to control what happens to them, which inclines to low self-esteem.