I have a question...

[conuly]

Occasionally, with a wide and varied range of people, the subject of homeschooling comes up. And somebody inevitably pops up to say they're against homeschooling because "they want their children to learn to socialize". And yet, if they sent their kid to school, and the kid spent time with his/her friends in class, the teacher invariably says "you're not here to socialize, you're here to learn". Which is true. If you want to socialize, aside from HUGE homeschooling groups, there's other places like the playground and structured "after school" activities. But some people just keep missing the point, I think.

Comments

[fjorab-teke.livejournal.com]

Ugh, yeah. School IS a place to socialize as long as you don't do that INSTEAD of learning.

*heehee* Eric's granny is a strange lady, and she was quite annoyed to find out he was dating a weird quiet tomboy from college AND was starting to get serious. She said (in her trademark high-pitched screech), "Ye didn't go to college to go courtin'!" and then later when he told her we were getting married the first comment was, "Ye didn't get her PREGNANT didje?" We got married AFTER I had finished college, and he had dropped out in favor of a REALLY nice job (the company faltered in 2001 and quickly downsized, taking out many positions including his).

[fjorab-teke.livejournal.com]

Grah, forgot to mention the homeschooling...I know a LOT of people who home-school, and from what I gather they're not missing out on anything. ;-) If I had gotten along with my mom better, I would have gladly done so if she wanted to.

[conuly]

It seems like most of the non-adult people at NC are homeschooled sometimes. Some homeschooled kids no doubt do miss out, but that's because they're being homeschooled for reasons of abuse and control, something which would've happened if they'd been sent to school. Most of them, I think, are fine.

[joeymew.livejournal.com]

What was the question?

I can't say I'm socializing very much since I started homeschooling, but I didn't socialize that much in public school either. The difference is that now I'm not incredibly depressed. W00t for homeschoolness!

[conuly]

Why can't I write coherantly, that's the question. Or maybe "WHY THE FUCK ARE PEOPLE STUPID GAH!!!!!!".

[joeymew.livejournal.com]

1: Because it's quite late at night where you are, is my best guess. 5 AM, right?

2: Because the stupid ones stopped getting eaten. That whole neat survival of the fittest thing got thrown out the window somewhere along the line.

[catsluvdmb.livejournal.com]

My grandmother adopted this girl who she is homeschooling and that kid is a MONSTER. It's not about socializing in the "chatting with your friends" sense. It's socializing in the "learning what is socially acceptable behavior" sense. If this girl went to a regular school, she would not behave the way she does because she would have had the crap beaten out of her (and rightfully so). I dread going to my grandmother's because of the demon spawn she is raising. Ugh, just thinking about it is making me sick lol.

[conuly]

I don't think people *do* learn what's socially acceptable at school, though. Instead, they learn what's popular, a very different concept. You learn socially acceptable behavior around adults, not other children.

Is the girl housebound? Does she have no chances to socialize with people outside of school?

[catsluvdmb.livejournal.com]

But you learn important things about interaction when you are forced to be with people from many different backgrounds. For example, Allie (the girl) runs around taking other peoples things and then claiming they are hers. You just wouldn't get away with that in a school while the adults she interacts with think it's "cute" (or at least that's what they say).

Other than parents, most adults are unwilling to call a kid out when they're being bad. They don't think it's their place to "parent" someone else's kids. On the other hand, children will say whatever they feel like, and will call you out when you're being a jerk. This is why interaction with peers is so important.

They live out on a horse farm in South Carolina, and my grandmother is one of those freaks that thinks she knows what's best and therefore doesn't provide opportunities for Allie to interact with other children. It's sad and creepy all wrapped into a burrito of aggrivating.

[wakasplat.livejournal.com]

Thing is, school doesn't really give you a chance to associate with lots of different people in the way that unschooling and/or homeschooling can. School forces you to associate with people in a very narrow age bracket, and also often income bracket if you're in an area where the rich kids mostly get funneled off to specific schools and the non-rich kids mostly don't. The most actual *opportunity* for socializing with people of a wide variety of backgrounds is outside of school. If a parent doesn't allow that, then they're probably also the kind of parent who would try to keep their kid from associating with other kids at school anyway.

[conuly]

For example, Allie (the girl) runs around taking other peoples things and then claiming they are hers.

So will my sister's cousin Junior, and he's been in public school all his life. Hell, so will her ex-roommate from the group home in White Plains, she's a real troublemaker, and she's been in group homes since she's been old enough. You'd think that'd teach you socialization damn fast, being around a lot of different kids all the time, and all of them can beat you up, but it hasn't, she's just a nasty bitch.

[strangelette.livejournal.com]

*points to catsluvdmb's comment* That right there is what drives my major anti-homeschooling attitude. I wasn't happy at school (socially), I was pretty fucked up during high school, but I was in school the whole way. I had a good friend who was home schooled until somewhere in junior high, and hated school (socially) way more than I did; it always amazed me the little "Heather... we can't DO that" things that had to be explained or rationalized to her.

*shrugs* My opinions are based off of interactions with home schooled kids not being home schooled myself but there are pretty critical things that a kid learns just by being in that environment all the time without parents.

I should also say that I'm much more supportive of homeschooling later, Jr High/High school, because at that point it's moved beyond basic social skills into how to survive in a fucking nuthouse :)

[conuly]

it always amazed me the little "Heather... we can't DO that" things that had to be explained or rationalized to her.

Like what?

there are pretty critical things that a kid learns just by being in that environment all the time without parents.

I don't think so. People grew up for thousands of years without schooling, they still do so today, I don't think things suddenly changed.

[http://users.livejournal.com/the_silent_one_/]

I agree..
I've been Homeschooled my whole life, which is only about 15 1/2 years, but still.
I've never had a problem fitting in, as you said there Are Homeschool Groups, And I have always done "after school" like activities..
I'm also very involed in a Church youth group, and from what I hear from my friends I'm not missing much at school.
I have always know how to "socialize" My parents rasied me to have manners.

People Are missing the point.

[conuly]

I have always know how to "socialize" My parents rasied me to have manners.

Your parents raised you... what is that strange and arcane idea of which you speak? Clearly, you cannot be raised without going to school and spending time with 29 other people, that is how you learn.

[nighteshade.livejournal.com]

Homeschooling can be done a right way and a wrong way, like... just about everything, I guess. ;) I've met some homeschooled kids who were just as socially adapted as anyone else, but I've met others who were from the opposite end of the spectrum... such as the ones who went with my French class to our trip to Paris.

They were absolutely horrible to us, looking down upon us because we went to "regular" school and talking about us in French about how stupid we were and how we wouldn't understand what they were saying anyway because we didn't know any French (Guess what? We DID.), etc.

The conversation I had with one of their mothers made me laugh- she remarked that she chose to homeschool her children because she felt they would become better people, learn better values, etc. outside of the school system. Obviously they didn't- but that's the fault of the parents. Homeschooling is right for some, wrong for others. *shrug*

[conuly]

Homeschooling is right for some, wrong for others. *shrug*

Definitely. In this case, though, the mother's attitude says it all. SHE looked down on public school, and she passed that view on to her kids, that they were better for not being in school, and smarter, and so on.

[fjorab-teke.livejournal.com]

Ugh, yeah. School IS a place to socialize as long as you don't do that INSTEAD of learning.

*heehee* Eric's granny is a strange lady, and she was quite annoyed to find out he was dating a weird quiet tomboy from college AND was starting to get serious. She said (in her trademark high-pitched screech), "Ye didn't go to college to go courtin'!" and then later when he told her we were getting married the first comment was, "Ye didn't get her PREGNANT didje?" We got married AFTER I had finished college, and he had dropped out in favor of a REALLY nice job (the company faltered in 2001 and quickly downsized, taking out many positions including his).

[fjorab-teke.livejournal.com]

Grah, forgot to mention the homeschooling...I know a LOT of people who home-school, and from what I gather they're not missing out on anything. ;-) If I had gotten along with my mom better, I would have gladly done so if she wanted to.

[conuly]

It seems like most of the non-adult people at NC are homeschooled sometimes. Some homeschooled kids no doubt do miss out, but that's because they're being homeschooled for reasons of abuse and control, something which would've happened if they'd been sent to school. Most of them, I think, are fine.

[joeymew.livejournal.com]

What was the question?

I can't say I'm socializing very much since I started homeschooling, but I didn't socialize that much in public school either. The difference is that now I'm not incredibly depressed. W00t for homeschoolness!

[conuly]

Why can't I write coherantly, that's the question. Or maybe "WHY THE FUCK ARE PEOPLE STUPID GAH!!!!!!".

[joeymew.livejournal.com]

1: Because it's quite late at night where you are, is my best guess. 5 AM, right?

2: Because the stupid ones stopped getting eaten. That whole neat survival of the fittest thing got thrown out the window somewhere along the line.

[catsluvdmb.livejournal.com]

My grandmother adopted this girl who she is homeschooling and that kid is a MONSTER. It's not about socializing in the "chatting with your friends" sense. It's socializing in the "learning what is socially acceptable behavior" sense. If this girl went to a regular school, she would not behave the way she does because she would have had the crap beaten out of her (and rightfully so). I dread going to my grandmother's because of the demon spawn she is raising. Ugh, just thinking about it is making me sick lol.

[conuly]

I don't think people *do* learn what's socially acceptable at school, though. Instead, they learn what's popular, a very different concept. You learn socially acceptable behavior around adults, not other children.

Is the girl housebound? Does she have no chances to socialize with people outside of school?

[catsluvdmb.livejournal.com]

But you learn important things about interaction when you are forced to be with people from many different backgrounds. For example, Allie (the girl) runs around taking other peoples things and then claiming they are hers. You just wouldn't get away with that in a school while the adults she interacts with think it's "cute" (or at least that's what they say).

Other than parents, most adults are unwilling to call a kid out when they're being bad. They don't think it's their place to "parent" someone else's kids. On the other hand, children will say whatever they feel like, and will call you out when you're being a jerk. This is why interaction with peers is so important.

They live out on a horse farm in South Carolina, and my grandmother is one of those freaks that thinks she knows what's best and therefore doesn't provide opportunities for Allie to interact with other children. It's sad and creepy all wrapped into a burrito of aggrivating.

[wakasplat.livejournal.com]

Thing is, school doesn't really give you a chance to associate with lots of different people in the way that unschooling and/or homeschooling can. School forces you to associate with people in a very narrow age bracket, and also often income bracket if you're in an area where the rich kids mostly get funneled off to specific schools and the non-rich kids mostly don't. The most actual *opportunity* for socializing with people of a wide variety of backgrounds is outside of school. If a parent doesn't allow that, then they're probably also the kind of parent who would try to keep their kid from associating with other kids at school anyway.

[conuly]

For example, Allie (the girl) runs around taking other peoples things and then claiming they are hers.

So will my sister's cousin Junior, and he's been in public school all his life. Hell, so will her ex-roommate from the group home in White Plains, she's a real troublemaker, and she's been in group homes since she's been old enough. You'd think that'd teach you socialization damn fast, being around a lot of different kids all the time, and all of them can beat you up, but it hasn't, she's just a nasty bitch.

[strangelette.livejournal.com]

*points to catsluvdmb's comment* That right there is what drives my major anti-homeschooling attitude. I wasn't happy at school (socially), I was pretty fucked up during high school, but I was in school the whole way. I had a good friend who was home schooled until somewhere in junior high, and hated school (socially) way more than I did; it always amazed me the little "Heather... we can't DO that" things that had to be explained or rationalized to her.

*shrugs* My opinions are based off of interactions with home schooled kids not being home schooled myself but there are pretty critical things that a kid learns just by being in that environment all the time without parents.

I should also say that I'm much more supportive of homeschooling later, Jr High/High school, because at that point it's moved beyond basic social skills into how to survive in a fucking nuthouse :)

[conuly]

it always amazed me the little "Heather... we can't DO that" things that had to be explained or rationalized to her.

Like what?

there are pretty critical things that a kid learns just by being in that environment all the time without parents.

I don't think so. People grew up for thousands of years without schooling, they still do so today, I don't think things suddenly changed.

[http://users.livejournal.com/the_silent_one_/]

I agree..
I've been Homeschooled my whole life, which is only about 15 1/2 years, but still.
I've never had a problem fitting in, as you said there Are Homeschool Groups, And I have always done "after school" like activities..
I'm also very involed in a Church youth group, and from what I hear from my friends I'm not missing much at school.
I have always know how to "socialize" My parents rasied me to have manners.

People Are missing the point.

[conuly]

I have always know how to "socialize" My parents rasied me to have manners.

Your parents raised you... what is that strange and arcane idea of which you speak? Clearly, you cannot be raised without going to school and spending time with 29 other people, that is how you learn.

[nighteshade.livejournal.com]

Homeschooling can be done a right way and a wrong way, like... just about everything, I guess. ;) I've met some homeschooled kids who were just as socially adapted as anyone else, but I've met others who were from the opposite end of the spectrum... such as the ones who went with my French class to our trip to Paris.

They were absolutely horrible to us, looking down upon us because we went to "regular" school and talking about us in French about how stupid we were and how we wouldn't understand what they were saying anyway because we didn't know any French (Guess what? We DID.), etc.

The conversation I had with one of their mothers made me laugh- she remarked that she chose to homeschool her children because she felt they would become better people, learn better values, etc. outside of the school system. Obviously they didn't- but that's the fault of the parents. Homeschooling is right for some, wrong for others. *shrug*

[conuly]

Homeschooling is right for some, wrong for others. *shrug*

Definitely. In this case, though, the mother's attitude says it all. SHE looked down on public school, and she passed that view on to her kids, that they were better for not being in school, and smarter, and so on.