Taken from a comment I was going to make.
Sep. 18th, 2007 10:26 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
conuly
Angelique has an acquaintance (not a friend) in her toddler programs.
He's 2 and a half, and every time she sees him she shouts his name really loudly - and proceeds to totally ignore him. Well, he's not on her level at all, and, unlike her sister, he doesn't talk. (This makes it hard to speak to his parents, because all you can really politely talk about in these programs is your kids and theirs, and if I talk about how much she's talking now (which is all she's doing), it sounds like I'm boasting or judging.) He's in speech therapy.
But what I really want to say to his parents (but was not going to) is that I'd be much more concerned about the fact that, at two and a half, he doesn't play with the other kids. At all. I don't mean he doesn't play games with them, I mean he doesn't parallel play. I see this kid every week, several times a week, and he doesn't ever sit with another kid, or copy another child, or take somebody else's toy, or do the motions to any of the songs, nothing like that. He does what his mother tells him to do (come here, give me that, don't!) but he doesn't look to another kid if she goes "Hey, it's so-and-so!" or get a smock if she says "Do you want to paint?" or nod his head and sit down if she goes "Are you hungry? Let's eat". If he and his mom are doing play-dough together, and he decides to do something else, he doesn't look at Mommy before he gets up, he just moves (bolts) towards the other thing. My gut feeling is that all this combined is much more unusual than just not talking - I like kids, I pay attention to them. Evangeline plays with her sister, both in the parallel variety (Angelique is playing "eating dinner", so Evangeline does the same thing) and the social variety (Angelique says "Let's hide!" and Evangeline goes "Where Ana?" and 'finds' her to hide with her), and she's some 8 months younger than this boy, and she's just not that advanced.
Unfortunately, the only time I ever spoke to his mom about this, I was all reassuring "Yeah, it's just because you speak to him in Chinese, and you know boys are slower to talk, he's a bright kid, don't worry too much about it", but now I'm making this list of things and... I don't know.
Now, for those of you who might be new to my journal, I don't think that being unusual in this respect is a bad thing, per se - but his parents... I don't know if they see that he's different like this. I think they're focused on the language, and maybe not seeing the rest of it? Maybe they do, I don't know.
It's just hard to accept your kid if you don't know how they're different from other kids. Or to help him - he should be able to communicate with his parents, and now I'm thinking... well, you know what I'm thinking, I'm always thinking it :) I don't think it's just that he's slow to talk, is all.
Man, how do you say all this to somebody who it isn't their first language and you don't know them that well to begin with because all you do is make nice-talk about each other's kids (or some people gossip about other people's kids who aren't there)? Well, his mom is fluent, anyway, so language barriers should be minimal.
He's 2 and a half, and every time she sees him she shouts his name really loudly - and proceeds to totally ignore him. Well, he's not on her level at all, and, unlike her sister, he doesn't talk. (This makes it hard to speak to his parents, because all you can really politely talk about in these programs is your kids and theirs, and if I talk about how much she's talking now (which is all she's doing), it sounds like I'm boasting or judging.) He's in speech therapy.
But what I really want to say to his parents (but was not going to) is that I'd be much more concerned about the fact that, at two and a half, he doesn't play with the other kids. At all. I don't mean he doesn't play games with them, I mean he doesn't parallel play. I see this kid every week, several times a week, and he doesn't ever sit with another kid, or copy another child, or take somebody else's toy, or do the motions to any of the songs, nothing like that. He does what his mother tells him to do (come here, give me that, don't!) but he doesn't look to another kid if she goes "Hey, it's so-and-so!" or get a smock if she says "Do you want to paint?" or nod his head and sit down if she goes "Are you hungry? Let's eat". If he and his mom are doing play-dough together, and he decides to do something else, he doesn't look at Mommy before he gets up, he just moves (bolts) towards the other thing. My gut feeling is that all this combined is much more unusual than just not talking - I like kids, I pay attention to them. Evangeline plays with her sister, both in the parallel variety (Angelique is playing "eating dinner", so Evangeline does the same thing) and the social variety (Angelique says "Let's hide!" and Evangeline goes "Where Ana?" and 'finds' her to hide with her), and she's some 8 months younger than this boy, and she's just not that advanced.
Unfortunately, the only time I ever spoke to his mom about this, I was all reassuring "Yeah, it's just because you speak to him in Chinese, and you know boys are slower to talk, he's a bright kid, don't worry too much about it", but now I'm making this list of things and... I don't know.
Now, for those of you who might be new to my journal, I don't think that being unusual in this respect is a bad thing, per se - but his parents... I don't know if they see that he's different like this. I think they're focused on the language, and maybe not seeing the rest of it? Maybe they do, I don't know.
It's just hard to accept your kid if you don't know how they're different from other kids. Or to help him - he should be able to communicate with his parents, and now I'm thinking... well, you know what I'm thinking, I'm always thinking it :) I don't think it's just that he's slow to talk, is all.
Man, how do you say all this to somebody who it isn't their first language and you don't know them that well to begin with because all you do is make nice-talk about each other's kids (or some people gossip about other people's kids who aren't there)? Well, his mom is fluent, anyway, so language barriers should be minimal.
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no subject
Date: 2007-09-19 03:28 am (UTC)They might see that he is different but what are they going to say? Seriously. I don't talk casually in the playground or something about how my son isn't doing what he is supposed to unless it is somehow relevant to the conversation at hand. And sometimes it does bother me and I just would rather not talk about it. And play bothers me not because he is DIFFERENT but because I would think, gee, is my son truly happy, could he be truly happy without making a connection? Or just a whole bunch of other issues I guess. (Which is why I am setting up that play group.)
Funny you posted this, for the first time today, T played WITH another kid. Ever. It was not a goal up front but it was something I really was looking forward to. And apparently had a blast doing it. (I wasn't there, he was with his respite person.)
no subject
Date: 2007-09-19 03:46 am (UTC)I don't know, we had a whole conversation about this though, well, about his language. And, when I get really bored, I eavesdrop on people's not-so-private conversations (well, it's not like I can turn off my ears, is it?) and his parents (I didn't sit next to them to hear, they sat next to me and then started talking) only mentioned his speech (or lack thereof). I mean, I should hope his therapist knows what s/he's doing... but I've never gotten the impression that early intervention was especially well-funded in this state. Overworked, underpaid workers aren't always your best bet.
Maybe I'll just run up to it.
"Hey-I-know-a-little-about-it-have-you-considered-autism-let's-talk!"
Then they can stare at me and go "Uh, duh, why do you think he's in speech therapy?" and I can blush a lot and go change a diaper or something.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-19 03:58 am (UTC)Another thing -- Ted got an EI eval shortly after birth and since he came out kind of ok, just had trouble latching on (and now we think that may be from oral defensiveness), we just let it go. It was one of the reasons we were kind of in denial for a bit longer than normal. "Well we DID have a professional check him out and he was ok!"
I have a friend who has a son who sometimes I think may be on the spectrum but for some parents that's like suggesting their child is really freakin damaged. They would much rather say "I BET HE HAS ADD/ADHD" than something like Aspergers.
And its funny, in public, or whatever, we don't wind up talking about his social issues, because that is kind of a 'lack of' thing. If he was aggressive, and it was a problem, then maybe. But a kid who isn't playing much and not being a problem, you just dont talk about it. You will see us talking about lack of speech because we can't understand what he wants, or maybe about sensory stuff when he's climbed to the top of something and is about to fling himself to the ground, or when we're rotating turns pushing him on the swing because he can do that FOREVER. But we don't talk about the eye contact or the playing or whatever because it's not currently affecting that moment in time, more the big picture.
Not that we DON'T talk about it at all, like today we spoke about playing because it was relevant, and some other social stuff because of a note we got from the teacher. Same with F, we spoke about the social stuff in regards to how he is getting weaned from speech therapy soon, and the changes that have happened since June. It's like an event sort of thing, not regular convo stuff. But that's us. That and I guess we're at the point where hey, they're (or at least one) on the spectrum, its like talking about how they have brown eyes or whatever.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-19 04:12 am (UTC)Except that if he is on the spectrum and that's an underlying cause to his speech issues, and his parents somehow don't see it (I think it's obvious now that I think about it, but I don't know what his parents know, or his therapist (who really ought to, but who knows?)) that might be important to know for teaching him.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-19 04:20 am (UTC)I really hope they already have all the info they need and are just not talking about it. Because I don't envy someone going through those rocky 'wtf' and 'now what' stages. Thank goodness I didnt have an LJ at the time, I think my whole flist would have dumped me. :P
no subject
Date: 2007-09-19 04:13 am (UTC)That's about all I could come up with, haha.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-19 04:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-19 04:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-19 12:46 pm (UTC)The first real indication I had that Colin had a problem was a daycare worker pointing out that he didn't seem to be hearing when his name was called. After we had tubes put into his ears to help get rid of a very long-lasting ear infection, his vocabulary didn't pick up the way it should even when a year of functional deafness was taken into consideration. Maybe, if they're unaware of a problem, having a professional point out an anomaly would lead to them getting more tests.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-19 09:24 pm (UTC)You don't. You're not their child's teacher or caregiver, nor are you their relative or close friend, and unsolicited diagnoses from situational acquaintances are generally unwelcome. However, maybe you could make some information available to the person running the toddler program, who might then say something to the parents.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-19 10:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-20 02:01 am (UTC)but get him in an environment where he's comfortable, and he can talk intelligently and he plays with Maylie (not parallel but WITH her). He's just really shy with other kids and wants nothing to do with other kids unless he meets up with them one on one (like a playdate) and meets them over and over again. he plays parallel with the other boys his age that he knows real well, but he plays pretend with Maylie.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-20 06:25 am (UTC)Heck, for all any of us know, he could be lying awake at night (like my sister used to) practicing tongue twisters. (No joke.)
no subject
Date: 2007-09-19 03:28 am (UTC)They might see that he is different but what are they going to say? Seriously. I don't talk casually in the playground or something about how my son isn't doing what he is supposed to unless it is somehow relevant to the conversation at hand. And sometimes it does bother me and I just would rather not talk about it. And play bothers me not because he is DIFFERENT but because I would think, gee, is my son truly happy, could he be truly happy without making a connection? Or just a whole bunch of other issues I guess. (Which is why I am setting up that play group.)
Funny you posted this, for the first time today, T played WITH another kid. Ever. It was not a goal up front but it was something I really was looking forward to. And apparently had a blast doing it. (I wasn't there, he was with his respite person.)
no subject
Date: 2007-09-19 03:46 am (UTC)I don't know, we had a whole conversation about this though, well, about his language. And, when I get really bored, I eavesdrop on people's not-so-private conversations (well, it's not like I can turn off my ears, is it?) and his parents (I didn't sit next to them to hear, they sat next to me and then started talking) only mentioned his speech (or lack thereof). I mean, I should hope his therapist knows what s/he's doing... but I've never gotten the impression that early intervention was especially well-funded in this state. Overworked, underpaid workers aren't always your best bet.
Maybe I'll just run up to it.
"Hey-I-know-a-little-about-it-have-you-considered-autism-let's-talk!"
Then they can stare at me and go "Uh, duh, why do you think he's in speech therapy?" and I can blush a lot and go change a diaper or something.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-19 03:58 am (UTC)Another thing -- Ted got an EI eval shortly after birth and since he came out kind of ok, just had trouble latching on (and now we think that may be from oral defensiveness), we just let it go. It was one of the reasons we were kind of in denial for a bit longer than normal. "Well we DID have a professional check him out and he was ok!"
I have a friend who has a son who sometimes I think may be on the spectrum but for some parents that's like suggesting their child is really freakin damaged. They would much rather say "I BET HE HAS ADD/ADHD" than something like Aspergers.
And its funny, in public, or whatever, we don't wind up talking about his social issues, because that is kind of a 'lack of' thing. If he was aggressive, and it was a problem, then maybe. But a kid who isn't playing much and not being a problem, you just dont talk about it. You will see us talking about lack of speech because we can't understand what he wants, or maybe about sensory stuff when he's climbed to the top of something and is about to fling himself to the ground, or when we're rotating turns pushing him on the swing because he can do that FOREVER. But we don't talk about the eye contact or the playing or whatever because it's not currently affecting that moment in time, more the big picture.
Not that we DON'T talk about it at all, like today we spoke about playing because it was relevant, and some other social stuff because of a note we got from the teacher. Same with F, we spoke about the social stuff in regards to how he is getting weaned from speech therapy soon, and the changes that have happened since June. It's like an event sort of thing, not regular convo stuff. But that's us. That and I guess we're at the point where hey, they're (or at least one) on the spectrum, its like talking about how they have brown eyes or whatever.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-19 04:12 am (UTC)Except that if he is on the spectrum and that's an underlying cause to his speech issues, and his parents somehow don't see it (I think it's obvious now that I think about it, but I don't know what his parents know, or his therapist (who really ought to, but who knows?)) that might be important to know for teaching him.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-19 04:20 am (UTC)I really hope they already have all the info they need and are just not talking about it. Because I don't envy someone going through those rocky 'wtf' and 'now what' stages. Thank goodness I didnt have an LJ at the time, I think my whole flist would have dumped me. :P
no subject
Date: 2007-09-19 04:13 am (UTC)That's about all I could come up with, haha.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-19 04:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-19 04:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-19 12:46 pm (UTC)The first real indication I had that Colin had a problem was a daycare worker pointing out that he didn't seem to be hearing when his name was called. After we had tubes put into his ears to help get rid of a very long-lasting ear infection, his vocabulary didn't pick up the way it should even when a year of functional deafness was taken into consideration. Maybe, if they're unaware of a problem, having a professional point out an anomaly would lead to them getting more tests.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-19 09:24 pm (UTC)You don't. You're not their child's teacher or caregiver, nor are you their relative or close friend, and unsolicited diagnoses from situational acquaintances are generally unwelcome. However, maybe you could make some information available to the person running the toddler program, who might then say something to the parents.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-19 10:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-20 02:01 am (UTC)but get him in an environment where he's comfortable, and he can talk intelligently and he plays with Maylie (not parallel but WITH her). He's just really shy with other kids and wants nothing to do with other kids unless he meets up with them one on one (like a playdate) and meets them over and over again. he plays parallel with the other boys his age that he knows real well, but he plays pretend with Maylie.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-20 06:25 am (UTC)Heck, for all any of us know, he could be lying awake at night (like my sister used to) practicing tongue twisters. (No joke.)