Somebody posted a HP fic set in NYC....

[conuly]

And in it they mentioned a Jewish-run bodega, which really dragged me away from the story.

Jewish people, in my experience, don't run bodegas. They have delis, or corner stores, or kosher delis (any of these can be run by non-Jews as well), but not bodegas. Hispanics or Koreans are more likely to run bodegas.

And then I'm thinking, why is that? Is it just me (and my mom)? Or what? (And is it just me who thinks of a bodega as any corner store that happens to also sell flowers? That's not what the word means, but that's what I think of.)

Interestingly, Merriam-Webster is telling me that bodega is cognate with apothocary, which would be interesting in an HP fic :)

Comments

[eofs.livejournal.com]

Welcome to the world of the Harry Potter fanfic world as experienced by the British.

[conuly]

*grins*

That's almost what I said when I tried to explain the question to my mom.

And here I'm sitting wondering if the Jews != bodega thing is random prejudice or what, too. Gah.

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

Koreans run bodegas? I would say that Koreans, like Jews, run delis; Hispanics run bodegas, because bodegas are a specific type of shop run by Hispanics selling products that cater to Hispanics, like tamarind candy, Goya juices, calling cards with good rates to Latin America, Spanish-language newspapers, etc. My experience of them is mostly in NJ, though, not New York City.

In Spain, a bodega is a wine cellar and what I would call a bodega is called a quiosco (Hispanicized version of "kiosk").

I would say that an apothecary is more like a botánica, not a bodega. I mean, I would say that an apothecary and a botánica are exact equivalents, unless the owner of the botánica is also a santero or otherwise performs spiritual services, which is pretty common. But you can have botánicas that are just botánicas.

[conuly]

Where a Hispanic owned a bodega, and then the neighborhood changed slightly, and now a Korean owns the same bodega, it's grandfathered in as a bodega, especially if it still has Hispanic products in it. And flowers.

[conuly]

And I didn't say bodega means apothocary. I said they're cognates - two words coming from the same root. Which they are, if MW is to be trusted.

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

I would say that flowers are more Korean, though, not Hispanic? I mean, I've never seen a Hispanic-run bodega that sold flowers.

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

Right, I realized that later. I'm used to cognate being used to mean that a word both comes from the same root and has the same meaning (and a word that comes from the same root and has a different meaning, or that looks the same but has a different meaning and no common root, being called a false cognate). While I realize that's not technically the definition, it is the most commonly used one. (As in, the only person I've ever heard use the correct definition is you; whereas years of language instruction, including books by world-famous experts in translation theory, use the definition I mentioned above.)

[conuly]

That could be....

[conuly]

(As in, the only person I've ever heard use the correct definition is you; whereas years of language instruction, including books by world-famous experts in translation theory, use the definition I mentioned above.)

*giggles*

You make that sound so disparaging.

I like to be accurate, and I don't know of an easier way to say "two words that are related but don't necessarily mean the same thing".

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

You make that sound so disparaging.

Well, it does make me feel stupid occasionally. Mostly when I think you mean one and forget you're more likely to mean the other.

I would argue that one meaning has trumped the other in certain circles (such as in language acquisition/translation theory) but I think we've had that argument before.

I like to be accurate, and I don't know of an easier way to say "two words that are related but don't necessarily mean the same thing".

I don't either, but I don't often have the need to express that concept, whereas I often need to say "two words that look the same in two different languages and do/do not have the same meaning." And I don't know of an easier way to say that, either.

In your sentence above, I would have said "Merriam-Webster says that bodega comes from the same root as apothecary." (And the Real Academia says it's true, btw--from Latin apothēca, from the Greek ἀποθήκη).

[conuly]

Well, I don't intend to make you feel stupid, and I'm sorry that I've done so.

If you're curious, when I decide to make people feel stupid, I go the direct route.

I'd say that as long as everybody in a conversation knows what's meant by "cognate" (or whatever other word), I'm not one to complain. And now we all do, so.

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't intend to make you feel stupid, and I'm sorry that I've done so.

Oh, I didn't think you did. I'm capable of making myself feel stupid entirely on my own.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

To me a bodega has that red and yellow signage, otherwise it's just a 'corner store'. Or a 'fruit store' is what I consider the Korean ones (because of all the fruit, duh).

Jews can run bodegas if they want to!

[adina77.livejournal.com]

By saying a jew run deli's, corner stores, kosher deli is like saying they should be doctors and lawyers and accountants. I personally dont like stereotypes. It just hurts how we are.

Just passing through. :)

[felicia-valis.livejournal.com]

Excuse me for just barging in on your LJ, but I found this post very interesting and funny. :P

I'd have to agree with sparkofcreation's description of bodegas. I live in the Bronx (NYC) and we're fairly dominated by bodegas where I live. There's a vegetable store run by Asians, a bodega run by Hispanics and a deli run by Arabs.

I guess a deli here is defined by what they sell (this is going solely by my observations). Delis make fresh sandwiches while bodegas don't; they just sell the same things you can get from a supermarket sans fresh products. Only Flower shops sell flowers. I've only seen flowers being sold in front of stores in Manhattan.

I could be utterly wrong on this, but that is of course my opinion. Jewish-run bodegas is certainly an entertaining thought...

Re: Jews can run bodegas if they want to!

[conuly]

Yes, they *can* run bodegas if they want to, but have you ever seen a bodega run by a Jewish person?

And seeing how a bodega is a noun interchangeable with "corner store" (other than who runs it), it's not a stereotype.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

Welcome to the world of the Harry Potter fanfic world as experienced by the British.

[conuly]

*grins*

That's almost what I said when I tried to explain the question to my mom.

And here I'm sitting wondering if the Jews != bodega thing is random prejudice or what, too. Gah.

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

Koreans run bodegas? I would say that Koreans, like Jews, run delis; Hispanics run bodegas, because bodegas are a specific type of shop run by Hispanics selling products that cater to Hispanics, like tamarind candy, Goya juices, calling cards with good rates to Latin America, Spanish-language newspapers, etc. My experience of them is mostly in NJ, though, not New York City.

In Spain, a bodega is a wine cellar and what I would call a bodega is called a quiosco (Hispanicized version of "kiosk").

I would say that an apothecary is more like a botánica, not a bodega. I mean, I would say that an apothecary and a botánica are exact equivalents, unless the owner of the botánica is also a santero or otherwise performs spiritual services, which is pretty common. But you can have botánicas that are just botánicas.

[conuly]

Where a Hispanic owned a bodega, and then the neighborhood changed slightly, and now a Korean owns the same bodega, it's grandfathered in as a bodega, especially if it still has Hispanic products in it. And flowers.

[conuly]

And I didn't say bodega means apothocary. I said they're cognates - two words coming from the same root. Which they are, if MW is to be trusted.

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

I would say that flowers are more Korean, though, not Hispanic? I mean, I've never seen a Hispanic-run bodega that sold flowers.

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

Right, I realized that later. I'm used to cognate being used to mean that a word both comes from the same root and has the same meaning (and a word that comes from the same root and has a different meaning, or that looks the same but has a different meaning and no common root, being called a false cognate). While I realize that's not technically the definition, it is the most commonly used one. (As in, the only person I've ever heard use the correct definition is you; whereas years of language instruction, including books by world-famous experts in translation theory, use the definition I mentioned above.)

[conuly]

That could be....

[conuly]

(As in, the only person I've ever heard use the correct definition is you; whereas years of language instruction, including books by world-famous experts in translation theory, use the definition I mentioned above.)

*giggles*

You make that sound so disparaging.

I like to be accurate, and I don't know of an easier way to say "two words that are related but don't necessarily mean the same thing".

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

You make that sound so disparaging.

Well, it does make me feel stupid occasionally. Mostly when I think you mean one and forget you're more likely to mean the other.

I would argue that one meaning has trumped the other in certain circles (such as in language acquisition/translation theory) but I think we've had that argument before.

I like to be accurate, and I don't know of an easier way to say "two words that are related but don't necessarily mean the same thing".

I don't either, but I don't often have the need to express that concept, whereas I often need to say "two words that look the same in two different languages and do/do not have the same meaning." And I don't know of an easier way to say that, either.

In your sentence above, I would have said "Merriam-Webster says that bodega comes from the same root as apothecary." (And the Real Academia says it's true, btw--from Latin apothēca, from the Greek ἀποθήκη).

[conuly]

Well, I don't intend to make you feel stupid, and I'm sorry that I've done so.

If you're curious, when I decide to make people feel stupid, I go the direct route.

I'd say that as long as everybody in a conversation knows what's meant by "cognate" (or whatever other word), I'm not one to complain. And now we all do, so.

[sparkofcreation.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't intend to make you feel stupid, and I'm sorry that I've done so.

Oh, I didn't think you did. I'm capable of making myself feel stupid entirely on my own.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

To me a bodega has that red and yellow signage, otherwise it's just a 'corner store'. Or a 'fruit store' is what I consider the Korean ones (because of all the fruit, duh).

Jews can run bodegas if they want to!

[adina77.livejournal.com]

By saying a jew run deli's, corner stores, kosher deli is like saying they should be doctors and lawyers and accountants. I personally dont like stereotypes. It just hurts how we are.

Just passing through. :)

[(Anonymous)]

Excuse me for just barging in on your LJ, but I found this post very interesting and funny. :P

I'd have to agree with sparkofcreation's description of bodegas. I live in the Bronx (NYC) and we're fairly dominated by bodegas where I live. There's a vegetable store run by Asians, a bodega run by Hispanics and a deli run by Arabs.

I guess a deli here is defined by what they sell (this is going solely by my observations). Delis make fresh sandwiches while bodegas don't; they just sell the same things you can get from a supermarket sans fresh products. Only Flower shops sell flowers. I've only seen flowers being sold in front of stores in Manhattan.

I could be utterly wrong on this, but that is of course my opinion. Jewish-run bodegas is certainly an entertaining thought...

Re: Jews can run bodegas if they want to!

[conuly]

Yes, they *can* run bodegas if they want to, but have you ever seen a bodega run by a Jewish person?

And seeing how a bodega is a noun interchangeable with "corner store" (other than who runs it), it's not a stereotype.