Guys? Angry doesn't have to mean "gratuitiously offensive".

[conuly]

Here I am, innocently scrolling my friends list, when I see an lj-cut with a warning: "No offense to any lesbians". So I click it, thinking that this ought to be good - and it's not like I don't still have completely random bad-mood and anger to burn off anyway, right?

Dear stupid dykes that came into my work,
What the fucking hell were your problems? It was nearing the end of my shift, I was tired as all hell, I was one of two baggers at durring the busiest time on a Sunday. I'm sorry I was bagging a big order than yours. I'm only one person, I can't be in two places at once. I'm sorry but you two were the snootiest, bitchiest, cuntiest lesbians I've ever met. You'd think for being somewhat of an outcast to society, you wouldn't be so fucking stuck up.

Here's what I don't get. If not a word of that little rant has to do with the fact that these people are OMG! GAY! GAY! GAY!, why did she include it?

Well, I was bored, so I just changed every incident of "dyke" and "lesbian" to nigger. I mean, I didn't, but I said I did.

Apparently, I should "lighten up".

...

I don't think so. Why? Because this form of insult is uncreative and, frankly, boring, not to mention, as I said, completely gratuitous. (This is why I like William deWorde, by the way. How often I feel like smacking somebody who'd rather apologise for offending somebody than avoid offending people in the first place! Sometimes it's unavoidable, but you can't say that applies here. That pisses me off more than seeing random character attacks at people.)

I generally like that community, but sometimes the people in there really piss me off. I'd complain, but it seems a bit wrong to submit an angry letter about angryletters.

Comments

[movealongx.livejournal.com]

Actually - I think it'd be quite appropriate to write an angry letter about angryletter. I mean, what better place, ya know?

[conuly]

Hm. Maybe I could do it in Latin. Just tell everyone to grow the fuck up, and, incidentally, think of how boring they're being.

[movealongx.livejournal.com]

That would definately add intelligence to some of the rants I've seen there. :)

[conuly]

Of course, then I'd get classics geeks coming out of everywhere to correct my bad grammar. Hm....

[movealongx.livejournal.com]

lol. You'd think they'd be impressed that you did it all in Latin. Are you fluent in Latin?

[conuly]

Not nearly.

[lordalfredhenry.livejournal.com]

Bigotry in all it's forms seems pretty wrong to me. Just wrong. If ppl are stuck up (and if it's a trend)...I dunno, I don't think it has anything to do with being a lesbian at all. There were some lesbians who I got to know in Dallas who were just totally down to earth. Anything but stuck up and yet very happy with who they were. I fine such narrowminded anecdotes ridiculous.

[fascinoma.livejournal.com]

Huh! Makes me think of moving to Dallas. I knew there was some reason to go there besides cute women wearing tight jeans and cowboy boots.

[kynn.livejournal.com]

Not unsurprisingly, any time someone says "no offense to [x]..." it's invariably followed by some sort of terribly offensive bullshit that not only offends [x] people, but ANY reasonable person.

[mayna.livejournal.com]

I think it was the fact that she was using "lesbian" as if it was a swear word. You could put "asshole" in there and it would have had the same effect.

[conuly]

Dingdingding. You win.

[conuly]

And it wouldn't've pissed me off.

Of course, where would be the fun in that?

[lordalfredhenry.livejournal.com]

If you ever go, there is a Sue Ellen's and a "Lipsticks?" IIRC (one of those is next to JR's and TMC, the two hot main gay clubs in Dallas) in the Oak Lawn/Throckmorton area.

Deep Ellum is another good place for bands/music and lots of bars/venues etc. They have stores like Tower Records and a "Whole Foods" store where an "old flame" of mine works which is not far from there.

One of girls in the couple I mentioned works the men's club, JRs. Her wife, Cindy was my coworker in web software devloping. If you ever wanted more info on Dallas, I could ask and get some contacts for you there. It seems most big cities have thriving communities but Dallas is unique. Houston's is "Montrose". I haven't been there though but from what I hear, it's a bit scarier/not as interesting as Dallas. Dallas and Austin are probably the hottest cities for gay/lesbian action IMHO. Houston is definitely up there in terms of activity due to its size there but it's much more conservative feeling since the big oil is here. Dallas seems to have more of the "attitude" (locally referred to as "Dallitude" which some people kinda avoid or is more of a shorthand reference for "drama and baggage with pretense").

[lordalfredhenry.livejournal.com]

Yah. It's like people who say "I don't mean to be rude but..." and then totally are rude, maybe more rude than if they hadn't prefaced it with a snivelling disclaimer but in their thinking, somehow believe their excuse made it less rude.

Yah. This is even worse that it specifically targets a group/generalizes a group like this.

[peaseblossom03.livejournal.com]

"That's it. Paint it one hundred times until you get it right." (Life of Brian)

[deceptica]

I have to say it's sort of bizarre to see you complain about a rant which refers to people as bitches and cunts, but it's a word like "lesbian" you take offense to. I mean, I think I know how you mean it, but it still looks odd.

I'm also genuinely curious where you would draw the line between being offensive and being descriptive. If I say "this black guy annoyed me", am I being descriptive or offensive because it's not "relevant" that the guy was black? Is it relevant whether someone who annoyed me had red hair or does my saying so just offend redheads everywhere? If I say that a woman really got on my nerves, is this offensive to women because men can also be annoying and the annoying person's sex isn't relevant? I'm wondering.

[yadfothgildloc.livejournal.com]

muahahahahahaha...

[yadfothgildloc.livejournal.com]

As representative of the Classics LJ communities, we're all quite proud regarding Conuly's m4d Latin sk1llz0rz.

(ego, vicarius communitatis "Classics" (Romaeve ac Graecae civilitatum), dico nos superbior esse de sc1t11s p3r1+11s Latinae Connuliae.

[gingembre.livejournal.com]

As for the first part of your comment, I have no answer/comments.

For the second part (as to when using a descriptive term is ok or not), I would say it is a contextual thing. Mainly, is what you're saying a complaint about that black person, because or influenced by their being black, or are you angry at that person (who by the way happens to be black). Usually, if it is the second (non-offensive) thing, you might describe the person once (to set the scene) but then you wouldn't mention it again.

To give an example:

Today at work this customer came in and gave me a really hard time. This redheaded girl thought she was *so* precious, how dare I not serve her first (despite the fact that there were other people before her.) And then she was so goddamn stingy she didn't even leave a decent tip after I had gone out of my way to bring her order back to the kitchen because "the sauce needs to be on the side."

Here I am clearly complaining about this girl (who happens to have red hair) and her I-am-so-important attitude.

Another take:

Today at work this customer came in and gave me a really hard time. This redheaded girl thought she was *so* precious, how dare I not serve her first (despite the fact that there were other people before her.) And then this flame haired bitch was so goddamn stingy she didn't even leave a decent tip after I had gone out of my way to bring her order back to the kitchen because "the sauce needs to be on the side", picky redhead slut.

Here, the redhair is clearly being used in a deragatory, not descriptive, fashion.

And I used redheadedness because it is not a particularly sensitive thing, at least that I've noticed lol. Also, these are made up examples, so please excuse my lack of excessive anger. :-p

[gingembre.livejournal.com]

I LOVE YOU.

[yadfothgildloc.livejournal.com]

awwwwww, thanks!

[conuly]

Well, it depends. If you just say "this black guy annoyed me", with no context, I might wonder why you took the time to mention he was black (after all, you wouldn't say "this white guy annoyed me", would you?), but that'd be it.

If you said "this black guy annoyed me, no offense to black people"... I'd be a little disturbed, and probably point out how offensive the phrase "no offense" tends to be.

If you said "this black guy annoyed me, and on and on, such a nigger, for an oppressed person you'd think he'd be less annoying", yeah - I'd be upset. Which is what this person did, of course.

[movealongx.livejournal.com]

Actually - I think it'd be quite appropriate to write an angry letter about angryletter. I mean, what better place, ya know?

[conuly]

Hm. Maybe I could do it in Latin. Just tell everyone to grow the fuck up, and, incidentally, think of how boring they're being.

[movealongx.livejournal.com]

That would definately add intelligence to some of the rants I've seen there. :)

[conuly]

Of course, then I'd get classics geeks coming out of everywhere to correct my bad grammar. Hm....

[movealongx.livejournal.com]

lol. You'd think they'd be impressed that you did it all in Latin. Are you fluent in Latin?

[conuly]

Not nearly.

[lordalfredhenry.livejournal.com]

Bigotry in all it's forms seems pretty wrong to me. Just wrong. If ppl are stuck up (and if it's a trend)...I dunno, I don't think it has anything to do with being a lesbian at all. There were some lesbians who I got to know in Dallas who were just totally down to earth. Anything but stuck up and yet very happy with who they were. I fine such narrowminded anecdotes ridiculous.

[fascinoma.livejournal.com]

Huh! Makes me think of moving to Dallas. I knew there was some reason to go there besides cute women wearing tight jeans and cowboy boots.

[kynn.livejournal.com]

Not unsurprisingly, any time someone says "no offense to [x]..." it's invariably followed by some sort of terribly offensive bullshit that not only offends [x] people, but ANY reasonable person.

[mayna.livejournal.com]

I think it was the fact that she was using "lesbian" as if it was a swear word. You could put "asshole" in there and it would have had the same effect.

[conuly]

Dingdingding. You win.

[conuly]

And it wouldn't've pissed me off.

Of course, where would be the fun in that?

[lordalfredhenry.livejournal.com]

If you ever go, there is a Sue Ellen's and a "Lipsticks?" IIRC (one of those is next to JR's and TMC, the two hot main gay clubs in Dallas) in the Oak Lawn/Throckmorton area.

Deep Ellum is another good place for bands/music and lots of bars/venues etc. They have stores like Tower Records and a "Whole Foods" store where an "old flame" of mine works which is not far from there.

One of girls in the couple I mentioned works the men's club, JRs. Her wife, Cindy was my coworker in web software devloping. If you ever wanted more info on Dallas, I could ask and get some contacts for you there. It seems most big cities have thriving communities but Dallas is unique. Houston's is "Montrose". I haven't been there though but from what I hear, it's a bit scarier/not as interesting as Dallas. Dallas and Austin are probably the hottest cities for gay/lesbian action IMHO. Houston is definitely up there in terms of activity due to its size there but it's much more conservative feeling since the big oil is here. Dallas seems to have more of the "attitude" (locally referred to as "Dallitude" which some people kinda avoid or is more of a shorthand reference for "drama and baggage with pretense").

[lordalfredhenry.livejournal.com]

Yah. It's like people who say "I don't mean to be rude but..." and then totally are rude, maybe more rude than if they hadn't prefaced it with a snivelling disclaimer but in their thinking, somehow believe their excuse made it less rude.

Yah. This is even worse that it specifically targets a group/generalizes a group like this.

[peaseblossom03.livejournal.com]

"That's it. Paint it one hundred times until you get it right." (Life of Brian)

[deceptica]

I have to say it's sort of bizarre to see you complain about a rant which refers to people as bitches and cunts, but it's a word like "lesbian" you take offense to. I mean, I think I know how you mean it, but it still looks odd.

I'm also genuinely curious where you would draw the line between being offensive and being descriptive. If I say "this black guy annoyed me", am I being descriptive or offensive because it's not "relevant" that the guy was black? Is it relevant whether someone who annoyed me had red hair or does my saying so just offend redheads everywhere? If I say that a woman really got on my nerves, is this offensive to women because men can also be annoying and the annoying person's sex isn't relevant? I'm wondering.

[yadfothgildloc.livejournal.com]

muahahahahahaha...

[yadfothgildloc.livejournal.com]

As representative of the Classics LJ communities, we're all quite proud regarding Conuly's m4d Latin sk1llz0rz.

(ego, vicarius communitatis "Classics" (Romaeve ac Graecae civilitatum), dico nos superbior esse de sc1t11s p3r1+11s Latinae Connuliae.

[gingembre.livejournal.com]

As for the first part of your comment, I have no answer/comments.

For the second part (as to when using a descriptive term is ok or not), I would say it is a contextual thing. Mainly, is what you're saying a complaint about that black person, because or influenced by their being black, or are you angry at that person (who by the way happens to be black). Usually, if it is the second (non-offensive) thing, you might describe the person once (to set the scene) but then you wouldn't mention it again.

To give an example:

Today at work this customer came in and gave me a really hard time. This redheaded girl thought she was *so* precious, how dare I not serve her first (despite the fact that there were other people before her.) And then she was so goddamn stingy she didn't even leave a decent tip after I had gone out of my way to bring her order back to the kitchen because "the sauce needs to be on the side."

Here I am clearly complaining about this girl (who happens to have red hair) and her I-am-so-important attitude.

Another take:

Today at work this customer came in and gave me a really hard time. This redheaded girl thought she was *so* precious, how dare I not serve her first (despite the fact that there were other people before her.) And then this flame haired bitch was so goddamn stingy she didn't even leave a decent tip after I had gone out of my way to bring her order back to the kitchen because "the sauce needs to be on the side", picky redhead slut.

Here, the redhair is clearly being used in a deragatory, not descriptive, fashion.

And I used redheadedness because it is not a particularly sensitive thing, at least that I've noticed lol. Also, these are made up examples, so please excuse my lack of excessive anger. :-p

[gingembre.livejournal.com]

I LOVE YOU.

[yadfothgildloc.livejournal.com]

awwwwww, thanks!

[conuly]

Well, it depends. If you just say "this black guy annoyed me", with no context, I might wonder why you took the time to mention he was black (after all, you wouldn't say "this white guy annoyed me", would you?), but that'd be it.

If you said "this black guy annoyed me, no offense to black people"... I'd be a little disturbed, and probably point out how offensive the phrase "no offense" tends to be.

If you said "this black guy annoyed me, and on and on, such a nigger, for an oppressed person you'd think he'd be less annoying", yeah - I'd be upset. Which is what this person did, of course.