An article from alternet

[conuly]

About a living wage. Isn't this why God invented unions? I thought all this was supposed to have been settled long ago, like it is in the rest of the civilized world.

Comments

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

Union membership is at an all time low.

It's a pity because those who want the government out of their tax dollars are also the anti union sorts, and I think unions are great -- they negotiate with the employer directly for benefits, retirement, medical care -- putting it in the hands of the people, not tax dollars going towards it.

I'm not too crazy about the social security problem because we have not one but TWO funds geared towards retirement. Medical care? We're getting an excellent plan. All this was negotiated with the union. My family isn't getting a handout, it's being EARNED. So all those anti union conservatives are not that clever -- the unions are doing just what they would want -- workers taking care of their own needs by negotiating with their employers.

[conuly]

So all those anti union conservatives are not that clever

No, but they're rich. And they want to get richer. So of course they want to help other rich people over poor people.

Maybe they're cleverer than you think.

[leora.livejournal.com]

I think most of those anti-union conservatives do not fall under your heading of, "those who want the government out of their tax dollars". In my experience while some people honestly want something fairly philosophically clear like small gvernment or assisting all those in need, most people want either whatever would be best for them or whatever they've been told they should want. You don't seem to fall into this category, but many, many others do, which is why you get people claiming opinions that appear to contradict.

It's like people who feel that corporations shouldn't have to pay to clean up their pollution. I heard the argument that a certain amount of pollution is a necessary side effect of making things, and I agree with this. Just as generating a certain amount of trash is a necessary side effect of living. That's fine. And where I live, people pay for their trash to be picked up. In my case, my landlord pays - it's part of our rental agreement. But if I owned a house, I could save money by generating less trash. I could choose how many bins I wanted to pay to get picked up. Likewise, I believe companies should pay to fix the effects of their actions rather than having the government pay with taxes to clean up pollution created by corporations. Yet, somehow that is seen as a liberal view, rather than a small government view. There are many other such examples.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

They're paying for it in other ways, though. Maybe they have great accountants but that doesn't help with all taxes.

And not all conservatives are rich, there are a lot of anti union people who think that the road to riches can be achieved by getting rid of unions, that costs will go up too high because of them.

[conuly]

Didn't say all conservatives are rich. Just said that the ones who support big business on top of the working poor often are.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

It's like the whole Walmart thing, how the US government subsidizes them so much because of their low wages and difficulty getting benefits if you work for them...ug.

[leora.livejournal.com]

Bleh, Walmart. I am not a fan of Walmart.

[phoenix-blue.livejournal.com]

Have you seen how Wal-Mart retaliates against employees who try to unionize? It runs its shops like third-world countries ... which is appropriate, I suppose, considering where most of their products are made.

[maelorin]

the civilised world may be settled, but it's yet to be fair.

[economic rights are consitently among the most resisted/abused by governments of any flavour]

[prezzey.livejournal.com]

I'm just reading György Moldova's memoirs (he's a popular Hungarian writer) and at one point (this is still pre-1989) he recalls a movie that had to be cut because...

...the hero is very very sad because he's in a desperate situation. A friend of his puts an arm around his shoulder and says:
"Don't worry. The union will help you."
The scene had to be cut from the movie because at this point the audience invariably broke out in roaring laughter.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

Union membership is at an all time low.

It's a pity because those who want the government out of their tax dollars are also the anti union sorts, and I think unions are great -- they negotiate with the employer directly for benefits, retirement, medical care -- putting it in the hands of the people, not tax dollars going towards it.

I'm not too crazy about the social security problem because we have not one but TWO funds geared towards retirement. Medical care? We're getting an excellent plan. All this was negotiated with the union. My family isn't getting a handout, it's being EARNED. So all those anti union conservatives are not that clever -- the unions are doing just what they would want -- workers taking care of their own needs by negotiating with their employers.

[conuly]

So all those anti union conservatives are not that clever

No, but they're rich. And they want to get richer. So of course they want to help other rich people over poor people.

Maybe they're cleverer than you think.

[leora.livejournal.com]

I think most of those anti-union conservatives do not fall under your heading of, "those who want the government out of their tax dollars". In my experience while some people honestly want something fairly philosophically clear like small gvernment or assisting all those in need, most people want either whatever would be best for them or whatever they've been told they should want. You don't seem to fall into this category, but many, many others do, which is why you get people claiming opinions that appear to contradict.

It's like people who feel that corporations shouldn't have to pay to clean up their pollution. I heard the argument that a certain amount of pollution is a necessary side effect of making things, and I agree with this. Just as generating a certain amount of trash is a necessary side effect of living. That's fine. And where I live, people pay for their trash to be picked up. In my case, my landlord pays - it's part of our rental agreement. But if I owned a house, I could save money by generating less trash. I could choose how many bins I wanted to pay to get picked up. Likewise, I believe companies should pay to fix the effects of their actions rather than having the government pay with taxes to clean up pollution created by corporations. Yet, somehow that is seen as a liberal view, rather than a small government view. There are many other such examples.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

They're paying for it in other ways, though. Maybe they have great accountants but that doesn't help with all taxes.

And not all conservatives are rich, there are a lot of anti union people who think that the road to riches can be achieved by getting rid of unions, that costs will go up too high because of them.

[conuly]

Didn't say all conservatives are rich. Just said that the ones who support big business on top of the working poor often are.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

It's like the whole Walmart thing, how the US government subsidizes them so much because of their low wages and difficulty getting benefits if you work for them...ug.

[leora.livejournal.com]

Bleh, Walmart. I am not a fan of Walmart.

[phoenix-blue.livejournal.com]

Have you seen how Wal-Mart retaliates against employees who try to unionize? It runs its shops like third-world countries ... which is appropriate, I suppose, considering where most of their products are made.

[maelorin]

the civilised world may be settled, but it's yet to be fair.

[economic rights are consitently among the most resisted/abused by governments of any flavour]

[prezzey.livejournal.com]

I'm just reading György Moldova's memoirs (he's a popular Hungarian writer) and at one point (this is still pre-1989) he recalls a movie that had to be cut because...

...the hero is very very sad because he's in a desperate situation. A friend of his puts an arm around his shoulder and says:
"Don't worry. The union will help you."
The scene had to be cut from the movie because at this point the audience invariably broke out in roaring laughter.