Where do people get this idea that LiveJournal *owes* them anything?

[conuly]

The pure, bottomline business decision would be only to provide services for paying users, or to push ads on free users. Because, y'know, LiveJournal *isn't* a government. Weird concept, that.

I'm not saying that paying is the only way to support the site, or that the site is always run how I, personally, would like - but please, can we keep our complaints reasonable? It's not faaaaaaair that free users don't get the same benefits as paid users? Tough. It would be even less fair if people paid for the site and didn't get any sort of reward. You get what you pay for, even online.

Edit: Of course, she originally posted here. Stupid comment limits made my comment virtual nonsense from what it had been.

Edit again: And she returns

Comments

[lakidaa.livejournal.com]

huh.

I never really wanted anything from lj other than a slightly larger icon box and maybe more icons for us freejournalers. That's all, really.

just 120/120. :P

Besides, GreatestJournal isn't used by near as much people as lj.

Lj has this 'lower person's ' support.

PS: Conuly factual SMACKDOWN.

[moggymania.livejournal.com]

Same here... I don't care about all of the other features, but I do think free users should get more than three icons -- even if only by hosting them on our own servers. (In fact, that'd be ideal in my book: the paid LJers can have LJ host everything for them, while the free ones could just host our own stuff.)

I do wish more people would migrate to GJ, though. Especially since the ads are invisible to Firefox users at the very least (not sure about Mozilla itself or Opera).

[malantha.livejournal.com]

That's so funny! I especially like the part where she says "you better try to stand up to your competition and offer us the same stuff." The reason it's soo funny to me is that, as far as I can tell, they're using LiveJournal's code. So, she's saying that LiveJournal should offer what GreatestJournal offers via LiveJournal('s code).

Also, "give us some features". Funny, I thought she could post, have icons, change colors, choose from different styles. If those aren't features, I don't know what is.

Free user says: "Really, I don't mind being oppressed"

[pockingell.livejournal.com]

I liked the "otherwise, we may revolt, and we all know what happens when puny little peasants revolt... anarchy" line.

Anarchy? I'd call that a fairly decent description of quite a few communities (For example, at the moment customers_suck (Very much not safe for work, home, or anywhere that doesn't like idiots with porn and flashing images))

And a revolt? What, exactly, are they going to do? Spam frank's journal?

[leora.livejournal.com]

That's been discussed before, but the problem is making sure the icon is icon-sized. Apparently that's hard to do if it's off-site, and if the images are huge, then people are going to have really slow loading pages and such. I don't fully understand the technical arguments, so take this in the spirit of a game of telephone relayed to you. If you do understand the issues, you may be able to fill in any blanks I left or fix any distortions. :)

I honestly can't afford a paid journal. Well, maybe, but not really. It'd be very hard for me to do. I've never paid for any of my LiveJournal time. The nice thing about LJ is that there are alternatives. I didn't start helping out to get free paid time - I started helping because I wanted to give something back and I couldn't afford paid time.

I still often think of myself more as a free user, and I want the site to be good for free users. But I'm a realist, and the site needs to stay in business. Also, free users can still journal even if they can't host their pictures with LJ. I've always been against proposals that would severely limit free users' basic use of LJ, like giving priority to paid users in Support. But the basic abilities are there for free, and I'm glad.

I dunno if I have a point. I guess some people are just not very connected with reality. Just as people complain that LJ doesn't support their first ammendment free speech rights. And I always think, as soon as you start paying regular taxes to LiveJournal and it becomes a part of the government, you will have a really good point there.

Re: Free user says: "Really, I don't mind being oppressed"

[leora.livejournal.com]

Obbadpun: The peasants are revolting!
I know, that's why we don't let them into the castle.

[mhari.livejournal.com]

AUGH that gets up my nose.

Much as I loathe it when paid users get on their high horse about "it's ONLY 25 dollars, you cheap bastards" (yes, $25 is a big deal to some of us) I hate an entitlement whore worse. Gah.

Re: Free user says: "Really, I don't mind being oppressed"

[pockingell.livejournal.com]

*gni*

If the nobility makes jokes like that, I'll be the first in line, with a pitchfork.

[conuly]

Nah, you make sense. It's like I said on the first comment - $25 a year isn't very much. If you really can't pay that, well, that sucks, but then you should be happy that there are sites out there where you can do the *basic* things (keeping an online journal) for free.

[conuly]

Well, $25 a year isn't that much. I appreciate that not everyone can afford that, life's tough, but that doesn't make it a large amount of money.

Re: Free user says: "Really, I don't mind being oppressed"

[leora.livejournal.com]

I don't look down on free users. I just can't resist puns. :)

I once saw a game called

Serf City: Life is Feudal

oh the joy

[leora.livejournal.com]

Also, in my experience, if you really can't pay that - you have bigger things on your mind.

People who can't afford $25 a year, and I've been there more than I'd like, are busy figuring out when they can pay each bill without bouncing anything and how much can they afford to spend on groceries on their next trip. If your biggest problem is that you can't make a phone post... well, tough. Really, just tough.

I do think that you can't compare problems. And one person's biggest problem may seem trivial to another. And saying my life is worse than yours is pointless. But there gets to be a point where if your biggest problems really are incredibly minor, you just need to grow up.

Re: Free user says: "Really, I don't mind being oppressed"

[pockingell.livejournal.com]

Given the usual outcome of peasant rebellions (namely, a hefty kickin' delivered by the better-armed, -armoured and -trained overlords (conuly's factual smackdown was a good example)), how about a game called:

Quell the Uprising: Resistance is Feudal

...You started it!

[conuly]

Also, in my experience, if you really can't pay that - you have bigger things on your mind.

Exactly.

But there gets to be a point where if your biggest problems really are incredibly minor, you just need to grow up.

Well, I suspect this person is acting only slightly younger than her age....

[leora.livejournal.com]

Oh, also, in all fairness - that can be a lot in some countries. I have a lot mroe sympathy for someone in a fdoreign country who really can't get a credit card to use and is going to have trouble getting the funds in US currency and may have it be quite a lot in their currency. So, if someone is outside the US, I am more prone to believe them if they say it's a lot of money to them. I don't keep track of exchange rates or average salaries. And while I know it's not going to be a huge amount in many countries, it will in some, so if I don't know, I don't assume. But a lot of the people complaining do seem to be spoiled American kids.

[leora.livejournal.com]

That's fine. If she is young, then she's expected to need to grow up. Doesn't change that she needs to grow up. It just means there are better odds that she will. The truly old who need to grow up are usually lost causes. I have hope for the kids though. :)

[neurotica0.livejournal.com]

That last sentence is pretty much what I said to her.

Though I did it much more bitchily. Because I'm a bitch.

[ser-kai.livejournal.com]

Bah. I'm almost tempted to quote her anonymously(as in, not saying who she is) on mock_the_stupid.

People r dum.

[mephron]

Apparently they're running a poll linked at http://www.livejournal.com/users/news/83806.html as to what new feature you'd like to see.

They don't have an 'add your own option'.

For mine it would be 'the ability to edit my damn comments'.

[leora.livejournal.com]

That won't happen. It's simply a messy issue for abuse. You'll have to delete and copy with corrections. It may be an annoyance, but there's no easy way to make editing of comments not come with a messload of problems.

I do wish they had a write-in section, but I realize that they'll get too many write-ins to read through and most will be already rejected ideas, ideas that are simply impractical, or things that are written so poorly they won't even know what the suggestion is. Sure, there'd be some good ideas in the batch, but it'd be hard to sort through. Which is why we have suggestions instead. Although what I want - an ADA compliant free public style is already a known suggestion. I just want them to remember it now that they may actually be able to do it.

And once we have that, i do think the tags are a good idea and I know many people want them.

[hopefulnebula]

Oh, gods. Entitlement morons are fun.

[deceptica]

i just really hate it when people try to sucker money out of you by tempting you with cool things.

Wow, she really must hate having to go shopping for anything.

You get what you pay for, even online.

I think that's the problem... you get so much stuff for free on the internet, and that's great, but as soon as people have been using a service for a few months, they suddenly start to think that they have a right to it, even if they didn't contribute anything. They just can't deal with the realities of the internet.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

Indeed - I have a friend in Argentina who lives comfortably enough, given the country's economic situation, but would probably find $25 quite an expense. But you're right that it's not them doing the complaining.

[lakidaa.livejournal.com]

huh.

I never really wanted anything from lj other than a slightly larger icon box and maybe more icons for us freejournalers. That's all, really.

just 120/120. :P

Besides, GreatestJournal isn't used by near as much people as lj.

Lj has this 'lower person's ' support.

PS: Conuly factual SMACKDOWN.

[moggymania.livejournal.com]

Same here... I don't care about all of the other features, but I do think free users should get more than three icons -- even if only by hosting them on our own servers. (In fact, that'd be ideal in my book: the paid LJers can have LJ host everything for them, while the free ones could just host our own stuff.)

I do wish more people would migrate to GJ, though. Especially since the ads are invisible to Firefox users at the very least (not sure about Mozilla itself or Opera).

[malantha.livejournal.com]

That's so funny! I especially like the part where she says "you better try to stand up to your competition and offer us the same stuff." The reason it's soo funny to me is that, as far as I can tell, they're using LiveJournal's code. So, she's saying that LiveJournal should offer what GreatestJournal offers via LiveJournal('s code).

Also, "give us some features". Funny, I thought she could post, have icons, change colors, choose from different styles. If those aren't features, I don't know what is.

Free user says: "Really, I don't mind being oppressed"

[pockingell.livejournal.com]

I liked the "otherwise, we may revolt, and we all know what happens when puny little peasants revolt... anarchy" line.

Anarchy? I'd call that a fairly decent description of quite a few communities (For example, at the moment customers_suck (Very much not safe for work, home, or anywhere that doesn't like idiots with porn and flashing images))

And a revolt? What, exactly, are they going to do? Spam frank's journal?

[leora.livejournal.com]

That's been discussed before, but the problem is making sure the icon is icon-sized. Apparently that's hard to do if it's off-site, and if the images are huge, then people are going to have really slow loading pages and such. I don't fully understand the technical arguments, so take this in the spirit of a game of telephone relayed to you. If you do understand the issues, you may be able to fill in any blanks I left or fix any distortions. :)

I honestly can't afford a paid journal. Well, maybe, but not really. It'd be very hard for me to do. I've never paid for any of my LiveJournal time. The nice thing about LJ is that there are alternatives. I didn't start helping out to get free paid time - I started helping because I wanted to give something back and I couldn't afford paid time.

I still often think of myself more as a free user, and I want the site to be good for free users. But I'm a realist, and the site needs to stay in business. Also, free users can still journal even if they can't host their pictures with LJ. I've always been against proposals that would severely limit free users' basic use of LJ, like giving priority to paid users in Support. But the basic abilities are there for free, and I'm glad.

I dunno if I have a point. I guess some people are just not very connected with reality. Just as people complain that LJ doesn't support their first ammendment free speech rights. And I always think, as soon as you start paying regular taxes to LiveJournal and it becomes a part of the government, you will have a really good point there.

Re: Free user says: "Really, I don't mind being oppressed"

[leora.livejournal.com]

Obbadpun: The peasants are revolting!
I know, that's why we don't let them into the castle.

[mhari.livejournal.com]

AUGH that gets up my nose.

Much as I loathe it when paid users get on their high horse about "it's ONLY 25 dollars, you cheap bastards" (yes, $25 is a big deal to some of us) I hate an entitlement whore worse. Gah.

Re: Free user says: "Really, I don't mind being oppressed"

[pockingell.livejournal.com]

*gni*

If the nobility makes jokes like that, I'll be the first in line, with a pitchfork.

[conuly]

Nah, you make sense. It's like I said on the first comment - $25 a year isn't very much. If you really can't pay that, well, that sucks, but then you should be happy that there are sites out there where you can do the *basic* things (keeping an online journal) for free.

[conuly]

Well, $25 a year isn't that much. I appreciate that not everyone can afford that, life's tough, but that doesn't make it a large amount of money.

Re: Free user says: "Really, I don't mind being oppressed"

[leora.livejournal.com]

I don't look down on free users. I just can't resist puns. :)

I once saw a game called

Serf City: Life is Feudal

oh the joy

[leora.livejournal.com]

Also, in my experience, if you really can't pay that - you have bigger things on your mind.

People who can't afford $25 a year, and I've been there more than I'd like, are busy figuring out when they can pay each bill without bouncing anything and how much can they afford to spend on groceries on their next trip. If your biggest problem is that you can't make a phone post... well, tough. Really, just tough.

I do think that you can't compare problems. And one person's biggest problem may seem trivial to another. And saying my life is worse than yours is pointless. But there gets to be a point where if your biggest problems really are incredibly minor, you just need to grow up.

Re: Free user says: "Really, I don't mind being oppressed"

[pockingell.livejournal.com]

Given the usual outcome of peasant rebellions (namely, a hefty kickin' delivered by the better-armed, -armoured and -trained overlords (conuly's factual smackdown was a good example)), how about a game called:

Quell the Uprising: Resistance is Feudal

...You started it!

[conuly]

Also, in my experience, if you really can't pay that - you have bigger things on your mind.

Exactly.

But there gets to be a point where if your biggest problems really are incredibly minor, you just need to grow up.

Well, I suspect this person is acting only slightly younger than her age....

[leora.livejournal.com]

Oh, also, in all fairness - that can be a lot in some countries. I have a lot mroe sympathy for someone in a fdoreign country who really can't get a credit card to use and is going to have trouble getting the funds in US currency and may have it be quite a lot in their currency. So, if someone is outside the US, I am more prone to believe them if they say it's a lot of money to them. I don't keep track of exchange rates or average salaries. And while I know it's not going to be a huge amount in many countries, it will in some, so if I don't know, I don't assume. But a lot of the people complaining do seem to be spoiled American kids.

[leora.livejournal.com]

That's fine. If she is young, then she's expected to need to grow up. Doesn't change that she needs to grow up. It just means there are better odds that she will. The truly old who need to grow up are usually lost causes. I have hope for the kids though. :)

[neurotica0.livejournal.com]

That last sentence is pretty much what I said to her.

Though I did it much more bitchily. Because I'm a bitch.

[ser-kai.livejournal.com]

Bah. I'm almost tempted to quote her anonymously(as in, not saying who she is) on mock_the_stupid.

People r dum.

[mephron]

Apparently they're running a poll linked at http://www.livejournal.com/users/news/83806.html as to what new feature you'd like to see.

They don't have an 'add your own option'.

For mine it would be 'the ability to edit my damn comments'.

[leora.livejournal.com]

That won't happen. It's simply a messy issue for abuse. You'll have to delete and copy with corrections. It may be an annoyance, but there's no easy way to make editing of comments not come with a messload of problems.

I do wish they had a write-in section, but I realize that they'll get too many write-ins to read through and most will be already rejected ideas, ideas that are simply impractical, or things that are written so poorly they won't even know what the suggestion is. Sure, there'd be some good ideas in the batch, but it'd be hard to sort through. Which is why we have suggestions instead. Although what I want - an ADA compliant free public style is already a known suggestion. I just want them to remember it now that they may actually be able to do it.

And once we have that, i do think the tags are a good idea and I know many people want them.

[hopefulnebula]

Oh, gods. Entitlement morons are fun.

[deceptica]

i just really hate it when people try to sucker money out of you by tempting you with cool things.

Wow, she really must hate having to go shopping for anything.

You get what you pay for, even online.

I think that's the problem... you get so much stuff for free on the internet, and that's great, but as soon as people have been using a service for a few months, they suddenly start to think that they have a right to it, even if they didn't contribute anything. They just can't deal with the realities of the internet.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

Indeed - I have a friend in Argentina who lives comfortably enough, given the country's economic situation, but would probably find $25 quite an expense. But you're right that it's not them doing the complaining.