conuly: (Default)
[personal profile] conuly
In which this teacher earnestly wants a word to substitute for "chink" in Midsummer Night's Dream, and one person suggests kink which doesn't mean the same thing.

And on the one hand, I'm sure they all have their hearts in the right place, but on the other hand, maybe they should collectively teach a different play instead. Shakespeare wrote plenty of comedies, just pick a different one off the shelf.

Date: 2026-03-22 05:18 pm (UTC)
movingfinger: (Default)
From: [personal profile] movingfinger
Wait till the kids start sniggering at "hole."

Date: 2026-03-22 05:35 pm (UTC)
ethelmay: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ethelmay
It wouldn't have occurred to me to worry about it, any more than about the gravedigger's spade in Hamlet. And there are words I avoid because they sound like slurs - the infamous synonym of "miserly" for one.

But I have assumed (and I could be wrong about this, especially given current trends in racist rhetoric) that as a racist term "Chink" had mostly disappeared - nearly as much as "spade" has.

Date: 2026-03-22 06:29 pm (UTC)
adrian_turtle: (books)
From: [personal profile] adrian_turtle
I perceive a difference between students hearing sexual innuendo, and hearing what sounds like a racist slur against a classmate. I'm not thinking about the author's intent, though clearly Shakespeare intended for that particular play to have lots of sexual innuendo. High school teachers these days don't just teach "Othello" without extensive framing about 17th century race relations, and they treat "Merchant of Venice" like it's radioactive. And middle schoolers performing a play are even less able to find mature perspective than high schoolers studying it.
Edited (change to reading icon) Date: 2026-03-22 06:30 pm (UTC)

Date: 2026-03-22 06:33 pm (UTC)
jack: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jack
And people suggesting "just" changing it to another word which doesn't rhyme! That might work, but it didn't feel like an obvious suggestion.

And I was surprised to realise that there might be people for whom the slur is the main or only meaning they know, but I realise, I've no real way of knowing if that's a tiny fraction of people or a majority of people.

Date: 2026-03-22 06:48 pm (UTC)
adrian_turtle: (Default)
From: [personal profile] adrian_turtle
They're talking about 13-year-olds, who work from a more limited perspective and knowledge base than adults.

Date: 2026-03-22 07:20 pm (UTC)
ioplokon: purple cloth (Default)
From: [personal profile] ioplokon
Reading that thread, it sounds like the teacher is currently in a situation where their actual students are giggling about "chink" because they know it is a racial slur, which does seem like it needs to be addressed directly and promptly, though?

Date: 2026-03-22 07:28 pm (UTC)
crystalpyramid: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crystalpyramid
It 100% needs to be addressed but maybe it's more like you'd need to address kids being weird about "negro" or "niger, -um, -a" in a language class? It's not like you can change Spanish or Latin to avoid the problem.

And as much as you can try to help kids in class understand the nuance, you can't perform this to an audience you haven't had class time with. My previous job had a problem where they'd talk extensively about real racism in their old scripts but then perform to an audience without the same context.

Date: 2026-03-22 08:15 pm (UTC)
ethelmay: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ethelmay
I went back and looked and it wasn't clear if they were actually giggling or it was hypothetical. If they actually were it would make sense to take action. But if they don't KNOW the slur meaning, I wouldn't go out of my way to TEACH it to them. The slur dying out is a good thing.

Date: 2026-03-22 08:38 pm (UTC)
isis: (craptastic squid by scarah)
From: [personal profile] isis
This brought me back to my (very long-ago) high school days, in which the drama class teacher decided to change the "spade" references in the following passage:
CECILY.
Do you suggest, Miss Fairfax, that I entrapped Ernest into an engagement? How dare you? This is no time for wearing the shallow mask of manners. When I see a spade I call it a spade.

GWENDOLEN.
[Satirically.] I am glad to say that I have never seen a spade. It is obvious that our social spheres have been widely different.
to "I call them as I see them." / "It is obvious that you don't see very well."

Of course, this was in the 1970s, when "spade" (in the racist sense) was perhaps more common - and, saliently, the girl playing Gwendolen was black :-)

Date: 2026-03-22 09:12 pm (UTC)
redbird: closeup of me drinking tea, in a friend's kitchen (Default)
From: [personal profile] redbird
The production I just saw, with a Black Gwendolen, left the text unchanged--and the gardener standing nearby, carrying a large spade. But that's a lot easier to do in a professional production, with a budget for scenery, impressive costumes, and props.

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