Ana question...

[conuly]

I've long since discovered that she listens better if I'm holding her hands, or otherwise touching her. Otherwise she gets distracted and may even miss that I'm talking. (It's annoying. She asks "what?", and then she has to ask again and again because she gets distracted midsentence. I really dislike being asked to repeat myself even once, so I'm sitting there getting annoyed at her for my own issues.)

I've no idea what's normal or not, of course. So... how normal is this for a three-year-old child?

Comments

[ladyshrew.livejournal.com]

::embarrassed:: Um, it's normal for me.

[xiggaroo.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't worry about it. I need to say "Tobe? Tobe. TOBY." before the kid listens, and he's five.

[conuly]

Great! How normal are you in this respect?

[ladyshrew.livejournal.com]

::giggle:: Probably not very.

Although, I think the rate of "ooooh SHINY!"/distraction/lost-in-thought behaviour goes up in the humanities, particularly in Classics.

[conuly]

I'm not worried. Normal != superior, and different != bad, remember? The kid is smart, polite, coordinated. She's a gifted little actress (if a bad liar, which is a pleasant combination), she can sing somewhat on key, she can and does stand up for herself, she's sweet to her sister. What's there to worry about?

I'm just curious as to whether or not this is normal.

[xiggaroo.livejournal.com]

Forgot who I was talking to. :P

As for normal, wtf do I know. It's probably highly ABnormal, meaning she's just so advanced that whatever you're saying is just TOO boring for her to pay attention to?

[leora.livejournal.com]

It's way too little info to go off of, but makes me wonder if Ana might be touch-dominant. People all tend to have a dominant sense which is their primary interface with the world. For most people it is sight. For many people it is hearing. For far fewer people it is touch and/or kinesthetic or something else unusual.

Does she generally want to be doing something with her hands? Like textures and such? Point out physical things?

The problem with trying to tell the sense dominance of a child that young though is that little kids tend to be more physical than adults anyway, so it's hard to get a good comparison. But it can be something to watch for as she grows. Especially since touch dominance can make schoolwork harder, if more tactile methods of learning aren't presented, but it can be compensated for if you're aware of it. It's not that touch-dominance makes learning any harder, but schools tend to be aimed at sight and hearing, since they are far more common.

I had a touch dominant teacher once, and it was dreadful for me. He insisted on us learning in tactile ways, and that just wasn't my mode. So, I imagine it's like that in reverse, but pretty much all the time, for the touch-dominant.

[xiggaroo.livejournal.com]

That's totally me - I need to ask my mom if I was like that as a kid...

[literalgirl.livejournal.com]

It's not uncommon for people on the spectrum! I gather you'd know by now, though, if there was any spectrummy stuff going on with her.

It's interesting to me because it's a technique I learned to use with Bolt shortly after he was diagnosed. Not usually hands, though, Usually shoulder pressure, not too light! :-)

[wodhaund.livejournal.com]

I can't help much, but I find it hard to focus on what people are saying if they don't get my attention first. Usually it involves a tap on the shoulder. If there's a LOT of background noise, one of my roommates usually has to say my name and catch my attention with some sort of movement. (They'd swear I'm deaf sometimes, but I'm not, really.)

It might just be an attention thing, where touch helps her stay grounded. I think most children are that way, honestly.

[strangelette.livejournal.com]

I'm replying here since that's pretty much exactly what I was going to say :) My mom read a few books on the spectrum you're referencing when my sis and I were little. I'm told having one kid, me, who would rather not be touched and one, my sis, who was incredibly tactile made for some interesting parenting.

My sister just turned 20 and there are still times when the only way to get her attention is to put a hand on her shoulder. When she was little it was never a problem of not listening it was just that she was so absorbed with what she was doing that the auditory prompt in the background didn't get through. And, as leora said it's something to think about when she starts school. Sis had a much harder time in a traditional classroom setting than I did despite being just as smart.

[moggymania.livejournal.com]

That's what I was thinking... It's referenced in a ton of books, and I know that Amanda Baggs has mentioned it at least once in reference to herself, but I can't recall any of the details at the moment. (Hmm. The Donna Williams books? It sounds like one of the things she would write about... I know that it was an autobiography, anyway.)

Though conuly *has* posted questions about a lot of things like this, where at least one of us said that the behavior is normal for autistics but not for NTs at that age. I believe that possible auditory sensitivity and possible auditory processing issues were two of them...following a specific routine in a way that possibly wasn't just "kids like routine" -- stuff like that. (She also just said in a thread above us that the kid is awful at lying.)

I'd say that it's a serious possibility that Ana is on the spectrum...not saying she absolutely is, but she might be at least BAP. Guess we'll see in a few years.

[leora.livejournal.com]

That's a really good point.

When you combine this with the signs of sensory overload, you definitely build up a picture of some sort of sensory processing abnormality. Whether it's spectrum or not, I couldn't say, but I'd definitely want to pay attention to other sensory issues to see what else might be there.

[brownkitty.livejournal.com]

I know I treat my NT daughter differently than other parents do, because my first child is autistic/Asperger's/something.

To me, and I freely admit I'm no expert, if Ana is on the spectrum she's on the light end of it.

[literalgirl.livejournal.com]

Hee. The "awful at lying" is one I can relate to. I don't know whether to be dismayed or intrigued at the fact that my son has actually (apparently) learned to do a bit of lying, just recently (at 13). He's not great at it, but I am not great at catching it, either. Both times it's been under extreme emotional duress, and both times at school because he is disbelieved by the staff when he tells the truth. So maybe it's an experimental thing. Either way, he's been told not to!

[movealongx.livejournal.com]

Thats how I am. When Im doing something, I get absorbed in it, and the only thing that gets my attention is my son making noise (i never wanna learn to filter that out) or someone saying hey, or hey Stacy.

But then, I find it hard to focus on anything being said unless it really interests me. Usually what my boyfriend says about car audio equipment goes in one ear and out the other without ever being processed. lol

(and sorry for missing the quotation mark/apostrophe key. This computer has a broken one.)

[gingembre.livejournal.com]

To me, and I freely admit I'm no expert, if Ana is on the spectrum she's on the light end of it.

As her mom, I agree with this, though I also am no expert. :-) I think, though, that your first point is the important one, that once you have experienced having (or in my case growing up with) kids on the spectrum, and learning how to handle their particular quirks, you simply are more *aware* of all these possible things. So therefore, all sorts of things that many parents might not even notice about their kid, are picked up on more by you due to your experience (the general "you" here.) The same way that Connie dissects all of Ana's language development due to her interest in linguistics - stuff most parents, I think we can *all* agree, do not even pay attention to lol! :-)

[failstoexist.livejournal.com]

I've definitely seen it before...though a lot of the time it seems to be that they don't *want* to listen...everything else in the room is more interesting. It's especially true when I'm at daycare telling a kid that they have to do something they're not too fond of. They will also look away if they think they might get in trouble for something.

Some of them will space out and we have to change what we're saying to them...so instead of just their first name, we'll say their first and last name, or we'll touch their shoulder-touching them always works. That usually gets their attention. That seems to be much more like what you're talking about with Ana than the other example-that's just them not wanting to hear.

It kind of reminds me of myself-I can't talk on the phone. I get horribly distracted. It happens in person as well, but less often. I'll ask a question, space out during the answer, and then have to admit that I just did that. Haven't really figured out why yet, though.

[conuly]

Does she generally want to be doing something with her hands? Like textures and such? Point out physical things?

Interesting. Would wanting to dance *all the time*, especially when frustrated or upset count? (I know it'd count as stimming, which is a bit annoying, as it distracts *me*. I want to tell her to stop doing it, even when it's really cute, because I can't watch it!)

[leora.livejournal.com]

For a kinesthetic dominance, it would. The kinesthetic sense is one of the senses they don't teach you in kindergarten :/ But it's the sense of where your own body parts are. It's the sense that allows you to close your eyes and touch your finger to your nose.

People who are kinesthetically focused like to do physical activities, things with body motion, they may not be as focused on textures and such, but they'd generally enjoy learning in a way that involves muscle memory. Anecdotally, some older touch/kinesthetic (it can be hard to divide them and I'm not an expert) people often like to knit while in class, and it helps them learn better. Or do other simple tasks that involve physical movement. If forced to listen to a lecture while simply sitting still, they don't always learn much from it.

And while this is possible, I do agree when it was mentioned below that there may be more general sensory processing issues. And/or issues with switching attention.

[conuly]

*grins*

At this point, I don't think she has the capability to actually lie. And I'm pretty sure this is normal for three year olds.

When she does try to lie, she's really really bad at it, for example, when she's snuck some ABC gum into her mouth, and she simply refuses to open her mouth at all. If she *would* open it, I might not even notice the gum in it! (Mind, I'm not telling her that.)

Her normal technique for getting out of trouble is to fess up, and then run away really fast or start fussing that she doesn't need a time-out (or to help clean up the mess, or to say sorry for hurting her friend, or whatever else it is).

[conuly]

Anecdotally, some older touch/kinesthetic (it can be hard to divide them and I'm not an expert) people often like to knit while in class, and it helps them learn better.

*stares*

Or, say, doodle or play freecell on the computer? I never was good at explaining that this helped me pay attention....

[conuly]

I'd say that it's a serious possibility that Ana is on the spectrum...not saying she absolutely is, but she might be at least BAP. Guess we'll see in a few years.

Given that my family has no normality reference point, I wouldn't be surprised. But at the moment, most of what I see with her seems, well, like everybody else her age. A few things which *might* be strange, but which I have no basis of comparison for. That's why I ask - I don't know where normal is some of the time. And a few things which are unusual because they're advanced, but it's not all Ana - we work hard on those things she's now advanced with. That's why she's ahead of the curve in, for example, naming the capital of Canada.

So right now, I'm pretty sure she's skewed towards the normal.

But you're right. Things'll all be more obvious in a few years. If she's more towards the autistic side of things than I guess, I just hope she's happier in school than I was. When it comes around.

[leora.livejournal.com]

Yes, to doodle. Freecell... not sure. It seems less physical. I would be more inclined to suspect it's a different issue... too much brainpower wanting to go everywhere, so you give yourself a simple, mildly brainpower task to eat up the excess, which keeps you from constantly distracting yourself with observations and daydreams, and the rest can go to whatever you're supposed to be learning from.

I don't know to what extent there are formal theories about the above, but that seems to be what is going on for a lot of people.

[leora.livejournal.com]

If you don't normally read it, check out ozarque's journal. She has circled around to the subject of sensory dominance and sightism in our culture. She's spoken on it before (she's a linguist and author of many books), but it's good timing that it's being discussed a little now.