I've recently spent a lot of time digging up links on non-dairy calcium for somebody in a comm....

[conuly]

I'd show you the link, but it's locked.

Anyway, for those of you who are interested, here's a bunch of the links. To find them, I specifically searched for vegan + calcium, figuring that vegans would be the ones most interested in going against milk. (If you search for dairy-free, or milk-free, you just get sites for supplements, which is so unfair! And if you just search for calcium and sources, you get a lot of sites for iguanas.)

Link the first.
The second.
The third (COLORCODED)
This one discusses calcium in relation to other nutrients.

Milk is, despite the propaganda, not a very good source of calcium. It's also unnatural, in the literal sense of the word, for us to drink *any* milk after weaning (whenever *that's* supposed to happen!), and especially the milk of another species. These two facts alone should be enough to convince people that it's not necessary to drink milk in order to not DIE of weak bones, but... well, the power of propaganda is strong.

Now, consciously, I know that milk is kinda icky, and that curdled milk solids are very icky, and that moldy curdled milk solids are extremely icky, and that all dairy makes me feel bad, physically and otherwise... but I still love me my blue cheese. I'm not perfect. Don't call me out on it, 'k?

Comments

[hopefulnebula]

I stopped drinking milk when I was about 7; somehow it was aggravating my sensory problems. One of the best things I've ever done. My mom's always said "Cow milk is good for baby cows, and not so good for people."

I still have milk on my cereal, though. And I eat cheese. And eat yogurt--although that's as much for the live and active cultures as it is for the taste.

[rho]

I'd argue the unnatural bit, at least to a point. We've been drinking milk for long enough now that we have evolved to become better suited by it, as evidenced by the fact that only some of the population are lactose intolerant.

[conuly]

Actually, when you consider that most Asians and most Blacks (including people in Africa still) can't drink milk, along with a significant portion of Europeans, and that many people who believe they are not lactose intolerant *become* lactose intolerant if they don't have dairy products for a period of time...

I'd say that what you mean is that only some of the adult population is naturally lactose tolerant.

(And then, of course, you have to add in the people who're allergic to casein as well. Oy.)

[rho]

Well, when I said "some" what I meant was "a proportion greater than 0, but lower than 100%", which admitedly leaves a whole lot of possibilities. I know that the majority of people stop producing lactase once they've been weaned, but the fact that there's a sizable minority who don't would seem to indicate that there is something going on.

[conuly]

True, very true.

However, just to stir the pot, I should add that most people in our culture are effectively never weaned. They go straight from formula or mom-milk into "MUST. DRINK. MILK!" so it's hard to tell what portion of this population really would stop producing lactase if weaned.

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

Well that doesn't change the fact that I love milk and dairy products! =D

[conuly]

I know the feeling!

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

The articles were neat though... like I had no idea that sodium leeched calcium.

EVERYTHING as calcium in it these days, even my junk food. Dammit, I just want JUNK FOOD!

[mortaine.livejournal.com]

I will take organic skim milk over most of the chemical-laden crap the food industry thinks we should eat, any day of the week. It is unnatural for us to consume the byproducts of industrial mining operations, and yet we do it anyway. It is unnatural for us to eat super-sugars like high fructose corn syrup, or excitotoxins like MSG, but not only do we do it (often without even thinking about it), a lot of once-healthy vegetarian foods are laden with these unnatural additives.

I don't drink milk for the calcium-- I'm heavy enough that my bones will hold me up for many years to come, if I manage to lose the weight. I drink milk because I like the taste, it's a quick source of fat-free protein, and it's full of other vitamins necessary for life.

[conuly]

Just to be clear, I said unnatural "in the literal sense" because that's the only way I knew to express what I meant - unnatural with no unpleasant connotations. Just like medicine is unnatural, and trains are unnatural.

[squittycat.livejournal.com]

i'm always amazed at how everybody "knows" that dairy is just about the only way to get calcium into your body ever, when really it's all because of the propaganda. i think the chart that lists all those dozens of foods that have more calcium than human milk is enough to convince people that "just eat enough food to live; you'll probably get enough calcium" is about all that anyone should ever have to worry about that.

[hopefulnebula]

I stopped drinking milk when I was about 7; somehow it was aggravating my sensory problems. One of the best things I've ever done. My mom's always said "Cow milk is good for baby cows, and not so good for people."

I still have milk on my cereal, though. And I eat cheese. And eat yogurt--although that's as much for the live and active cultures as it is for the taste.

[rho]

I'd argue the unnatural bit, at least to a point. We've been drinking milk for long enough now that we have evolved to become better suited by it, as evidenced by the fact that only some of the population are lactose intolerant.

[conuly]

Actually, when you consider that most Asians and most Blacks (including people in Africa still) can't drink milk, along with a significant portion of Europeans, and that many people who believe they are not lactose intolerant *become* lactose intolerant if they don't have dairy products for a period of time...

I'd say that what you mean is that only some of the adult population is naturally lactose tolerant.

(And then, of course, you have to add in the people who're allergic to casein as well. Oy.)

[rho]

Well, when I said "some" what I meant was "a proportion greater than 0, but lower than 100%", which admitedly leaves a whole lot of possibilities. I know that the majority of people stop producing lactase once they've been weaned, but the fact that there's a sizable minority who don't would seem to indicate that there is something going on.

[conuly]

True, very true.

However, just to stir the pot, I should add that most people in our culture are effectively never weaned. They go straight from formula or mom-milk into "MUST. DRINK. MILK!" so it's hard to tell what portion of this population really would stop producing lactase if weaned.

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

Well that doesn't change the fact that I love milk and dairy products! =D

[conuly]

I know the feeling!

[maladaptive.livejournal.com]

The articles were neat though... like I had no idea that sodium leeched calcium.

EVERYTHING as calcium in it these days, even my junk food. Dammit, I just want JUNK FOOD!

[mortaine.livejournal.com]

I will take organic skim milk over most of the chemical-laden crap the food industry thinks we should eat, any day of the week. It is unnatural for us to consume the byproducts of industrial mining operations, and yet we do it anyway. It is unnatural for us to eat super-sugars like high fructose corn syrup, or excitotoxins like MSG, but not only do we do it (often without even thinking about it), a lot of once-healthy vegetarian foods are laden with these unnatural additives.

I don't drink milk for the calcium-- I'm heavy enough that my bones will hold me up for many years to come, if I manage to lose the weight. I drink milk because I like the taste, it's a quick source of fat-free protein, and it's full of other vitamins necessary for life.

[conuly]

Just to be clear, I said unnatural "in the literal sense" because that's the only way I knew to express what I meant - unnatural with no unpleasant connotations. Just like medicine is unnatural, and trains are unnatural.

[squittycat.livejournal.com]

i'm always amazed at how everybody "knows" that dairy is just about the only way to get calcium into your body ever, when really it's all because of the propaganda. i think the chart that lists all those dozens of foods that have more calcium than human milk is enough to convince people that "just eat enough food to live; you'll probably get enough calcium" is about all that anyone should ever have to worry about that.

[krisw.livejournal.com]

I hope you don't mind, but I'm passing on a link to this entry to another LJ'er, ok? (I don't think you will since you post it in communities and all, but I figured it wouldn't be a bad thing to give you a heads-up)

[conuly]

1. Fine by me.
2. Nope, I do like to know that people are enjoying my links :)

[(Anonymous)]

I hope you don't mind, but I'm passing on a link to this entry to another LJ'er, ok? (I don't think you will since you post it in communities and all, but I figured it wouldn't be a bad thing to give you a heads-up)

[conuly]

1. Fine by me.
2. Nope, I do like to know that people are enjoying my links :)