*eyeroll*

[conuly]

So, this person asked a language question. And in it, s/he quoted a sentence using the word "niggah". It's a sentence that you're pretty much only going to hear from a black person, making the word not racist. Edit: Well, that's weird. Who agrees with Kibbles and Fugacious down in the comments? (Whether or not it's offensive in and of itself is an argument for another eon, but let's just get to the point here)

This prompts a self-righteous "I'm from South Africa originally!!!!" girl (I'm calling troll, by the way) to flip out that the OP is obviously "racist" because her point could've been made without the oh-so-offensive Big Scawwy Word!

So far, so good. I mean, she somehow is missing the point that this is a word used by black people in an inoffensive manner (even when people point that out to her) and that the entire sentence can only be quoting a black person speaking to another black person, again in an inoffensive, non-racist manner, but fine. Whatever. She's just too full of trollish indignation to care. That's cool.

And then the girl asks "What are you, retarded?" (and, predictably, refuses to acknowledge her own offensiveness)

I'm not sure if I want to laugh or cry. The inanity of the entire post is enough to drive me battier than usual.

Comments

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

I've heard whites say that sentence, to each other. Fairly frequently. (And in mixed combos as well. As in white-to-black and black-to-white.) Maybe my neighborhood is just weird. :P

[conuly]

That's... weird. I've never heard that. I've mostly only heard that from black people, or, occasionally, white people deliberately affecting a black accent, usually for humor (which I *do* find mildly offensive).

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

No, it's used as a greeting of sorts, not for humor.

Everyone I know who does it is in their 20s? Early 20s? Round that age. Maybe some teens but I dont think so. (Only because I dont know many.)

[brownkitty.livejournal.com]

I've heard it but only in certain sub-cultures. Mostly either young black males, or young males of any ethnic description in a young-black-male social setting. It seems to be almost exclusively lower socioeconomic slang of the "friendly insult" variety.

It's one of those turns of phrase that would give me a knee-jerk reaction of "The speaker is probably poor, deliberately rude, and possibly below average intelligence. Also possibly a threat."

I don't know whether that is racist or not, but that's the usual context and reactions I have to that word or dialectical variants.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

It is two, minus the 'friendly insult' bit. Just friendly. Young males of any ethnic group, in a mixed social setting.

And as for the second list:

Its:
Some are poor, not being deliberately rude (Since at this point it is just a common phrase) and some are rather intelligent as well. Rarely a threat (tough guys I suppose but not an outright threat).

[interactiveleaf.livejournal.com]

It is, in fact, somewhat common.

[joeymew.livejournal.com]

You've got to wonder if these kinds of people search the internet for stuff that's going to offend them and then proceed to troll about without actually reading whatever it is that offends them.

[conuly]

Bingo.

[joeymew.livejournal.com]

Maybe we should suggest they take up bird house building?

[conuly]

Nah. They'd just get upset that you're inflicting your norms on innocent birds.

[leora.livejournal.com]

Actually, I do use the word retarded in a manner not meant to be offensive. I'm trying to not do so anymore when referring to people, but it was a really useful technical term, and I'd like to be able to use it in its technical sense with only that meaning.

[conuly]

True - and there are definitely ways you can use retarded and even retard inoffensively. This doesn't count, mihi.

[caprinus.livejournal.com]

You've been using "mihi" lately, I like it! Thumb up :)

BTW: the angry clueless girl is actually male.

[conuly]

Huh. Honest mistake, most LJers are female.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

When referring to people it really guts me. Doesn't offend so much as hurts. Not that people do it to hurt but it does.

[leora.livejournal.com]

But it is useful to have a term for the condition, and all of the technical terms turn into insults. So, you either need to stick with one and take the insult out of it or keep changing constantly until the culture grows up. And I'm tired of needing to keep up with the currently fashionable terms.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

The term is fine when being used as a term, but when you call someone retarded or a tard for doing something you find wrong, that's what hurts.

And I don't give a flying fuck about 'currently fashionable terms'. I care about human beings, and try to be a decent and considerate one, and try not to hurt people, and using retard/retarded as an insult is very hurtful to a lot of people. So I won't use it as an insult and woe to anyone who does that in front of me. Everyone has their pet peeve, that is one of mine (and faggot as an insult is another).

[leora.livejournal.com]

Ah, okay. I agree with that. I wouldn't use it as an insult; I'd use it as a statement of fact. Such as: I was a substitute teaching assistant for special needs kids, one of them had attention problems and one of them was retarded...

That sort of thing. Although I don't think the issue ever actually came up for me. Usually the disabilities I was dealing with were pretty moderate... some attention issues but fairly dealable with, some muscular problems, someone in a wheelchair (which was in a normal class and hardly counted since it barely made any difference), someone with a hearing problem (ditto previous, it just meant wearing a little microphone setup that fed to a piece she wore so she could hear me better, very easy and non-problematic). That sort of thing. But it is useful to actually be precise about the issues whenever possible, because you want to know how to properly compensate and adjust. It's really bad when you misunderstand the issue, cause lots of kids will try to slack if they can convince you they need help they don't, whereas not giving them the help they fairly need is just horrible.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

I've heard whites say that sentence, to each other. Fairly frequently. (And in mixed combos as well. As in white-to-black and black-to-white.) Maybe my neighborhood is just weird. :P

[conuly]

That's... weird. I've never heard that. I've mostly only heard that from black people, or, occasionally, white people deliberately affecting a black accent, usually for humor (which I *do* find mildly offensive).

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

No, it's used as a greeting of sorts, not for humor.

Everyone I know who does it is in their 20s? Early 20s? Round that age. Maybe some teens but I dont think so. (Only because I dont know many.)

[brownkitty.livejournal.com]

I've heard it but only in certain sub-cultures. Mostly either young black males, or young males of any ethnic description in a young-black-male social setting. It seems to be almost exclusively lower socioeconomic slang of the "friendly insult" variety.

It's one of those turns of phrase that would give me a knee-jerk reaction of "The speaker is probably poor, deliberately rude, and possibly below average intelligence. Also possibly a threat."

I don't know whether that is racist or not, but that's the usual context and reactions I have to that word or dialectical variants.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

It is two, minus the 'friendly insult' bit. Just friendly. Young males of any ethnic group, in a mixed social setting.

And as for the second list:

Its:
Some are poor, not being deliberately rude (Since at this point it is just a common phrase) and some are rather intelligent as well. Rarely a threat (tough guys I suppose but not an outright threat).

[interactiveleaf.livejournal.com]

It is, in fact, somewhat common.

[joeymew.livejournal.com]

You've got to wonder if these kinds of people search the internet for stuff that's going to offend them and then proceed to troll about without actually reading whatever it is that offends them.

[conuly]

Bingo.

[joeymew.livejournal.com]

Maybe we should suggest they take up bird house building?

[conuly]

Nah. They'd just get upset that you're inflicting your norms on innocent birds.

[leora.livejournal.com]

Actually, I do use the word retarded in a manner not meant to be offensive. I'm trying to not do so anymore when referring to people, but it was a really useful technical term, and I'd like to be able to use it in its technical sense with only that meaning.

[conuly]

True - and there are definitely ways you can use retarded and even retard inoffensively. This doesn't count, mihi.

[caprinus.livejournal.com]

You've been using "mihi" lately, I like it! Thumb up :)

BTW: the angry clueless girl is actually male.

[conuly]

Huh. Honest mistake, most LJers are female.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

When referring to people it really guts me. Doesn't offend so much as hurts. Not that people do it to hurt but it does.

[leora.livejournal.com]

But it is useful to have a term for the condition, and all of the technical terms turn into insults. So, you either need to stick with one and take the insult out of it or keep changing constantly until the culture grows up. And I'm tired of needing to keep up with the currently fashionable terms.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

The term is fine when being used as a term, but when you call someone retarded or a tard for doing something you find wrong, that's what hurts.

And I don't give a flying fuck about 'currently fashionable terms'. I care about human beings, and try to be a decent and considerate one, and try not to hurt people, and using retard/retarded as an insult is very hurtful to a lot of people. So I won't use it as an insult and woe to anyone who does that in front of me. Everyone has their pet peeve, that is one of mine (and faggot as an insult is another).

[leora.livejournal.com]

Ah, okay. I agree with that. I wouldn't use it as an insult; I'd use it as a statement of fact. Such as: I was a substitute teaching assistant for special needs kids, one of them had attention problems and one of them was retarded...

That sort of thing. Although I don't think the issue ever actually came up for me. Usually the disabilities I was dealing with were pretty moderate... some attention issues but fairly dealable with, some muscular problems, someone in a wheelchair (which was in a normal class and hardly counted since it barely made any difference), someone with a hearing problem (ditto previous, it just meant wearing a little microphone setup that fed to a piece she wore so she could hear me better, very easy and non-problematic). That sort of thing. But it is useful to actually be precise about the issues whenever possible, because you want to know how to properly compensate and adjust. It's really bad when you misunderstand the issue, cause lots of kids will try to slack if they can convince you they need help they don't, whereas not giving them the help they fairly need is just horrible.