conuly: (Default)
conuly ([personal profile] conuly) wrote2005-03-12 03:00 am

Everyone on BSG is so... religious

It's a nice change from Star Trek, where religion is a sign of backwardness, and the only people with warp drive and religion are either Klingons (where they used to be evil, and anyway that's not really a religion, it lacks a god) or Bajorans (who aren't exactly doing well in the galaxy, and anyway their gods happen to actually exist, and are affectionately named "wormhole aliens" by everyone else).

[identity profile] davidkevin.livejournal.com 2005-03-12 12:25 am (UTC)(link)

I think a case can be made that Worf is "religious" rather than merely "cultural" -- look at his attitude toward and veneration of Kahless -- although perhaps some of it is a psychological defense mechanism: he's "more Klingon than thou" (just as Spock was "more Vulcan than thou") in part to make up for the fact that he was raised by Humans and joined the Federation Starfleet as his adopted father had.

Worf reminds me of the child of assimilated Jews who reverts back to the orthodox traditions of his grandparents in rebellion against the assimilation of his parents. It's the same desperate attempt to find an anchoring cultural/religious identity in a confusing sea of multiple alternatives.

Like Spock before him, Worf is caught between two radically different cultures, although for different reasons than Spock, of course.

As for the reimagined BSG, I think that only Kara is truly religious in the sense that she really believes in the Greek Pantheon/Lords of Kobol (to the point of praying to them, which I agree is unusual for a television series character), although Roslyn and Richard Hatch's character would seem to run her a close second and third with their comments about Apollo.

(I should note that Kira was shown as praying to the Prophets in a couple of episodes of DS9, despite first-hand testimony from Sisko that they were not Gods but instead a form of incorporeal alien life. She really had faith of the heart....)

Interesting, is it not, that the two most religious women in television science fiction have such similar names, are career military officers, have similarly crappy love lives, and are such otherwise powerful women, right down to the ability to hold their own -- and then some -- in fistfights with men?

[identity profile] arikatt.livejournal.com 2005-03-12 01:01 am (UTC)(link)
I...love...you...and... *looks at [livejournal.com profile] conuly*...you.... *_* ♥

BSG

[identity profile] scottrossi.livejournal.com 2005-03-12 01:43 am (UTC)(link)
i totally enjoyed tonight's ep! it was amazing and did you also get a little misty eyed at the ending? maybe its just me being a silly homo or something, lol, but it was nice. i also got my question partly answered maybe ... they have yet to run into any other humans on Caprica. Helo and Sharon i mean. so it is either genocide or the cylons have herded them somewhere or maybe they are also making the survivors undergo tests of faith, endurance and wits ...

[identity profile] kimberly-a.livejournal.com 2005-03-12 11:32 am (UTC)(link)
This isn't sci-fi related, but I had some similar thoughts about "Dawson's Creek" at one time. There was an older character (someone's grandmother) who was deeply Christian, and it affected almost everything she did, which seemed realistic for someone who had turned to faith for comfort in a time of hardship (her husband had recently died). It significantly affected her relationship with her granddaughter in interesting ways. We even saw (in the second season) her faith being challenged by her encounter with a very nice gay young man, and her faith growing and expanding to the "judge not lest ye be judged" viewpoint rather than her original "homosexuality is a sin against God" viewpoint.

I am not Christian and not religious (in fact, I'm more of a philosophical Buddhist), but I really appreciated how they portrayed this profoundly religious character and the role that religion played in her life, how it interacted with events and people she encountered, etc. I was deeply disappointed when they later completely abandoned the character's religion as if it had never existed. Sigh.

[identity profile] squittycat.livejournal.com 2005-03-14 06:13 am (UTC)(link)
The Klingons don't have a god because the Ancient Klingons, according to lore, killed their god.

Frequent references are made to "Vulcan mysticism" and we have some evidence that the Vulcans, despite their proclamations of logic, are indeed a very mystical and faith-driven people.

The Ancient Bajorans actually achieved interstellar FTL flight (by accident) long before the Cardassians; the main reason they aren't doing so well is because of the long Cardassian occupation.

As for Worf, as has been mentioned, he does appear to be religious, and has even been seen meditating/praying in front of a shrine to Kahless which he keeps in his quarters, complete with a little Kahless figurine no less. As for the Klingon faith itself, it should be noted that it really didn't exist in the days that the Klingons were "evil" as the original Star Trek was most notably void of religion. This is because Gene Roddenberry was a very outspoken atheist, who insisted that 20th century religions had no place in our future, and wanted to make sure that this was reflected in the Star Trek universe. Despite all of this, however, the original series was still full of implications that Christian beliefs and practices survive among 22nd century Starfleet officers. Blame the writers. Star Trek is very USA-centric, anyway. :)

[identity profile] davidkevin.livejournal.com 2005-03-12 12:25 am (UTC)(link)

I think a case can be made that Worf is "religious" rather than merely "cultural" -- look at his attitude toward and veneration of Kahless -- although perhaps some of it is a psychological defense mechanism: he's "more Klingon than thou" (just as Spock was "more Vulcan than thou") in part to make up for the fact that he was raised by Humans and joined the Federation Starfleet as his adopted father had.

Worf reminds me of the child of assimilated Jews who reverts back to the orthodox traditions of his grandparents in rebellion against the assimilation of his parents. It's the same desperate attempt to find an anchoring cultural/religious identity in a confusing sea of multiple alternatives.

Like Spock before him, Worf is caught between two radically different cultures, although for different reasons than Spock, of course.

As for the reimagined BSG, I think that only Kara is truly religious in the sense that she really believes in the Greek Pantheon/Lords of Kobol (to the point of praying to them, which I agree is unusual for a television series character), although Roslyn and Richard Hatch's character would seem to run her a close second and third with their comments about Apollo.

(I should note that Kira was shown as praying to the Prophets in a couple of episodes of DS9, despite first-hand testimony from Sisko that they were not Gods but instead a form of incorporeal alien life. She really had faith of the heart....)

Interesting, is it not, that the two most religious women in television science fiction have such similar names, are career military officers, have similarly crappy love lives, and are such otherwise powerful women, right down to the ability to hold their own -- and then some -- in fistfights with men?

[identity profile] arikatt.livejournal.com 2005-03-12 01:01 am (UTC)(link)
I...love...you...and... *looks at [livejournal.com profile] conuly*...you.... *_* ♥

BSG

[identity profile] scottrossi.livejournal.com 2005-03-12 01:43 am (UTC)(link)
i totally enjoyed tonight's ep! it was amazing and did you also get a little misty eyed at the ending? maybe its just me being a silly homo or something, lol, but it was nice. i also got my question partly answered maybe ... they have yet to run into any other humans on Caprica. Helo and Sharon i mean. so it is either genocide or the cylons have herded them somewhere or maybe they are also making the survivors undergo tests of faith, endurance and wits ...

[identity profile] kimberly-a.livejournal.com 2005-03-12 11:32 am (UTC)(link)
This isn't sci-fi related, but I had some similar thoughts about "Dawson's Creek" at one time. There was an older character (someone's grandmother) who was deeply Christian, and it affected almost everything she did, which seemed realistic for someone who had turned to faith for comfort in a time of hardship (her husband had recently died). It significantly affected her relationship with her granddaughter in interesting ways. We even saw (in the second season) her faith being challenged by her encounter with a very nice gay young man, and her faith growing and expanding to the "judge not lest ye be judged" viewpoint rather than her original "homosexuality is a sin against God" viewpoint.

I am not Christian and not religious (in fact, I'm more of a philosophical Buddhist), but I really appreciated how they portrayed this profoundly religious character and the role that religion played in her life, how it interacted with events and people she encountered, etc. I was deeply disappointed when they later completely abandoned the character's religion as if it had never existed. Sigh.

[identity profile] squittycat.livejournal.com 2005-03-14 06:13 am (UTC)(link)
The Klingons don't have a god because the Ancient Klingons, according to lore, killed their god.

Frequent references are made to "Vulcan mysticism" and we have some evidence that the Vulcans, despite their proclamations of logic, are indeed a very mystical and faith-driven people.

The Ancient Bajorans actually achieved interstellar FTL flight (by accident) long before the Cardassians; the main reason they aren't doing so well is because of the long Cardassian occupation.

As for Worf, as has been mentioned, he does appear to be religious, and has even been seen meditating/praying in front of a shrine to Kahless which he keeps in his quarters, complete with a little Kahless figurine no less. As for the Klingon faith itself, it should be noted that it really didn't exist in the days that the Klingons were "evil" as the original Star Trek was most notably void of religion. This is because Gene Roddenberry was a very outspoken atheist, who insisted that 20th century religions had no place in our future, and wanted to make sure that this was reflected in the Star Trek universe. Despite all of this, however, the original series was still full of implications that Christian beliefs and practices survive among 22nd century Starfleet officers. Blame the writers. Star Trek is very USA-centric, anyway. :)