I vaguely know who the Jews for Jesus and Messianic Jews are. I'm curious, though - the few times I've heard them mentioned, it's been with some hostility. Why?
To quote from (well, paraphrase from memory) the son of a rabbi I know:
"You know who the Jews for Jesus are? Do ya? Let me tell you what a Jew for Jesus is. He's a Christian, that's what. He's not Jewish! If you're gonna be Christian, fine. Some of my best friends are Christians. But Christians aren't Jews. Jews are still waiting for the Messiah."
I wondered that myself the first time I heard the term "Jews for Jesus." I thought if they believe in Jesus aren't they Christian? Or perhaps more correctly some orthadox christian sect.
I've never run into that term until the web. Though I had heard on occasion Messanic Jews. But no idea what they are either. I figured they were some orthadox subgroup.
As I understand it, Jews for Jesus are really aggressive in their conversion tactics -- like some branches of fundamentalist Christianity, except that they go after Jews exclusively. Any forceful attempt at conversion gets annoying, but the Jewish people I know are particularly irritated by Jews for Jesus because it's so much more personal -- not only is it a conversion attempt, it's also a way of saying "Hey, you're doing Judaism wrong."
The Christian organization on campus called in JfJ last year. Boy, was Hillel ever pissed. Same way that the GLBTSO was pissed when they brought in one of those "God can cure the gay" groups...
That's part of why I hate them. While some of the actual Jews for Jesus are perfectly nice dupes, the organization is, IMO, hypocritical. If you truly believe that the divine being says the best way to live is to keep the Torah and also follow the teachings of Jesus, then why not convert both Jews and Christians? The fact that they only try to convert Jews, to me, says they are just trying to stealthily turn Jews into Christians and the entire organization is built on deceipt.
I have a great deal of respect for many religions and many Christians I know, but I like my religion to be honest.
Agressive, and illegal. They're known to lock the doors on auditoriums. Not only in violation of fire safety laws, but in fact commiting the crime of false arrest.
This is complicated, I think, by the fact that there's Judaism and then there's Jewish culture, which are not *quite* identical.
The problem with the JFJ, as I understand it, is that they're pushy evangelists, who deny their pushy evangelism by claiming that their beliefs are the same as the people's they're trying to convert.
Not that I am Jewish or have met these people to speak to. But that's my understanding from those who know better than I.
As has been mentioned above, it seems to have more to do with their aggressive evangelizing than their actual beliefs. The only times I've ever noticed them were when they were standing on a platform in Washington Square Park with a bullhorn and some poorly painted banners berating everyone that walked by.
1) Jews - at least, religious Jews - have always treated aggressive Christian missionaries with hostility, and since many non-religious Jews these days are anti-religion in general, and since there still remains a strong feeling of Jewish identity even among most non-religious Jews, it makes perfect sense that missionaries as agressive as JFJ would be treated with hostility.
2) The name - and the idea behind the name - is particularly offensive. Run-of-the-mill christian missionaries aren't looked upon all that well either, but "jews for jesus" does not consist of Jews at all, and the whole purpose of the entire organization is to missionize Jews in particular, unlike other groups.
I agree perfectly with your first point, but I have to differ someone on your second point.
Jews for Jesus is in fact made of of Jews (at least primarily). Being Jewish is an ethnicity, not neccesarily a religion - the number of non-practicing, even anti-religion Jews tends to help with this point...
Hmm. Do peoplf of Jewish faith believe there are still prophets comming? I think I've heard of two non jewish religions where Jesus was viewed as a prophet. But they are offshoots of christianity. I saw once online on one site why Jesus isn't seen as being a messiah. That he didn't meet the criteria of some prophecies.
I have one other question of curiosity. Is there ever any issue with christians that convert to jewish? I just wondered because of dietary and general rules/belief differences between the two.
To quote from (well, paraphrase from memory) the son of a rabbi I know:
"You know who the Jews for Jesus are? Do ya? Let me tell you what a Jew for Jesus is. He's a Christian, that's what. He's not Jewish! If you're gonna be Christian, fine. Some of my best friends are Christians. But Christians aren't Jews. Jews are still waiting for the Messiah."
I wondered that myself the first time I heard the term "Jews for Jesus." I thought if they believe in Jesus aren't they Christian? Or perhaps more correctly some orthadox christian sect.
I've never run into that term until the web. Though I had heard on occasion Messanic Jews. But no idea what they are either. I figured they were some orthadox subgroup.
As I understand it, Jews for Jesus are really aggressive in their conversion tactics -- like some branches of fundamentalist Christianity, except that they go after Jews exclusively. Any forceful attempt at conversion gets annoying, but the Jewish people I know are particularly irritated by Jews for Jesus because it's so much more personal -- not only is it a conversion attempt, it's also a way of saying "Hey, you're doing Judaism wrong."
The Christian organization on campus called in JfJ last year. Boy, was Hillel ever pissed. Same way that the GLBTSO was pissed when they brought in one of those "God can cure the gay" groups...
This is complicated, I think, by the fact that there's Judaism and then there's Jewish culture, which are not *quite* identical.
The problem with the JFJ, as I understand it, is that they're pushy evangelists, who deny their pushy evangelism by claiming that their beliefs are the same as the people's they're trying to convert.
Not that I am Jewish or have met these people to speak to. But that's my understanding from those who know better than I.
As has been mentioned above, it seems to have more to do with their aggressive evangelizing than their actual beliefs. The only times I've ever noticed them were when they were standing on a platform in Washington Square Park with a bullhorn and some poorly painted banners berating everyone that walked by.
1) Jews - at least, religious Jews - have always treated aggressive Christian missionaries with hostility, and since many non-religious Jews these days are anti-religion in general, and since there still remains a strong feeling of Jewish identity even among most non-religious Jews, it makes perfect sense that missionaries as agressive as JFJ would be treated with hostility.
2) The name - and the idea behind the name - is particularly offensive. Run-of-the-mill christian missionaries aren't looked upon all that well either, but "jews for jesus" does not consist of Jews at all, and the whole purpose of the entire organization is to missionize Jews in particular, unlike other groups.
I agree perfectly with your first point, but I have to differ someone on your second point.
Jews for Jesus is in fact made of of Jews (at least primarily). Being Jewish is an ethnicity, not neccesarily a religion - the number of non-practicing, even anti-religion Jews tends to help with this point...
Hmm. Do peoplf of Jewish faith believe there are still prophets comming? I think I've heard of two non jewish religions where Jesus was viewed as a prophet. But they are offshoots of christianity. I saw once online on one site why Jesus isn't seen as being a messiah. That he didn't meet the criteria of some prophecies.
I have one other question of curiosity. Is there ever any issue with christians that convert to jewish? I just wondered because of dietary and general rules/belief differences between the two.
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"You know who the Jews for Jesus are? Do ya? Let me tell you what a Jew for Jesus is. He's a Christian, that's what. He's not Jewish! If you're gonna be Christian, fine. Some of my best friends are Christians. But Christians aren't Jews. Jews are still waiting for the Messiah."
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Nice icon, btw.
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I've never run into that term until the web. Though I had heard on occasion Messanic Jews. But no idea what they are either. I figured they were some orthadox subgroup.
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The Christian organization on campus called in JfJ last year. Boy, was Hillel ever pissed. Same way that the GLBTSO was pissed when they brought in one of those "God can cure the gay" groups...
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I have a great deal of respect for many religions and many Christians I know, but I like my religion to be honest.
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The problem with the JFJ, as I understand it, is that they're pushy evangelists, who deny their pushy evangelism by claiming that their beliefs are the same as the people's they're trying to convert.
Not that I am Jewish or have met these people to speak to. But that's my understanding from those who know better than I.
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Completely unrelated, but I thought you'd find it interesting.
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2) The name - and the idea behind the name - is particularly offensive. Run-of-the-mill christian missionaries aren't looked upon all that well either, but "jews for jesus" does not consist of Jews at all, and the whole purpose of the entire organization is to missionize Jews in particular, unlike other groups.
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Jews for Jesus is in fact made of of Jews (at least primarily). Being Jewish is an ethnicity, not neccesarily a religion - the number of non-practicing, even anti-religion Jews tends to help with this point...
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Jews for Jesus are a specific organization under the larger rubric of "Messianic Jews."
Most Jews consider it disingenous at best, and lying outright at worst, to call a religion patently not Jewish (that is -"Christian") "Jewish."
jews
messianic and JFJ are basically jews that believe jesus was the messiah and that he will return, blah blah blah, same as our xtians except not.
Re: jews
I have one other question of curiosity. Is there ever any issue with christians that convert to jewish? I just wondered because of dietary and general rules/belief differences between the two.
Re: jews
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"You know who the Jews for Jesus are? Do ya? Let me tell you what a Jew for Jesus is. He's a Christian, that's what. He's not Jewish! If you're gonna be Christian, fine. Some of my best friends are Christians. But Christians aren't Jews. Jews are still waiting for the Messiah."
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Nice icon, btw.
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I've never run into that term until the web. Though I had heard on occasion Messanic Jews. But no idea what they are either. I figured they were some orthadox subgroup.
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The Christian organization on campus called in JfJ last year. Boy, was Hillel ever pissed. Same way that the GLBTSO was pissed when they brought in one of those "God can cure the gay" groups...
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The problem with the JFJ, as I understand it, is that they're pushy evangelists, who deny their pushy evangelism by claiming that their beliefs are the same as the people's they're trying to convert.
Not that I am Jewish or have met these people to speak to. But that's my understanding from those who know better than I.
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Completely unrelated, but I thought you'd find it interesting.
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2) The name - and the idea behind the name - is particularly offensive. Run-of-the-mill christian missionaries aren't looked upon all that well either, but "jews for jesus" does not consist of Jews at all, and the whole purpose of the entire organization is to missionize Jews in particular, unlike other groups.
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Jews for Jesus is in fact made of of Jews (at least primarily). Being Jewish is an ethnicity, not neccesarily a religion - the number of non-practicing, even anti-religion Jews tends to help with this point...
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Jews for Jesus are a specific organization under the larger rubric of "Messianic Jews."
Most Jews consider it disingenous at best, and lying outright at worst, to call a religion patently not Jewish (that is -"Christian") "Jewish."
jews
messianic and JFJ are basically jews that believe jesus was the messiah and that he will return, blah blah blah, same as our xtians except not.
Re: jews
I have one other question of curiosity. Is there ever any issue with christians that convert to jewish? I just wondered because of dietary and general rules/belief differences between the two.
Re: jews