I hate it when people get their "facts" wrong...

[conuly]

http://alternet.org/rights/20176/

Throughout the 19th and 20th centuries, millions of immigrants signed on, some even changing their names upon arriving at Ellis Island to something that sounded more "American," and insisting that their American-born children speak only English.

Except for those who sent their children to German-speaking public schools, right? And those who sent (and continue to send) their children to Chinese school to learn to speak Chinese, right? Right.

For the first time, there was a permanent resident population that, however proficient in English, refused to surrender its native language.

What for the first time? This has ALWAYS been the case!

Hispanics, without apology, refuse to "assimilate," if that means giving up their culture and language.

That's just not true, though. Hispanics do this, and get away with it, because they're still immigrating here. There's no great wash of German or Italian immigrants anymore, but Hispanics have been immigrating for generations now! Well, Hispanic, that's not true. First Puerto Ricans immigrated, then Cubans, then Mexicans - so actually the Spanish spoken here has changed significantly. But I can very nearly promise that Spanish wouldn't be the important language it is if the immigration had ever ended.

(Note, I'm not calling the immigration a bad thing, or a good thing.)

(Consider this tantalizing fact: More New Yorkers get their news in Spanish from Jorge Ramos on "Noticiero Univision" than in English from Dan Rather on "The CBS Evening News.")

That's probably because English speaking New Yorkers have more choices than Spanish speaking New Yorkers - there's just more channels and news shows in English!

*sighs* It's an interesting enough article, and I agree with the view it presents - but some facts would've been nice.

Comments

[stejcruetekie.livejournal.com]

FWIW, I've generally been of the opinion that if you move to the US, you become american. None of this "African-American" or "Asian-American" or any of that stuff. When you move here, you're no longer in Asia. Hence, you're not Asian.

Move here, learn english, assilimate. In other words, when in Rome...

[conuly]

I'd rather learn Mohawk, thanks :)

hogwash

[scottrossi.livejournal.com]

this article is just ignorant hogwash. few facts, more racist and amerocentric views than anything.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

Out of curiosity, what's wrong with being a bilingual nation?

[georgiapeachy.livejournal.com]

It does make things diffcult, but I've also heard being bilingual stimulates your brain, so there are good and bad points...
Most of my family is bi, tri, etc. lingual and it doesn't hurt us.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

I'm currently living in a bilingual country and the biggest problem I can see is that neither of the languages are spoken by me ;0)

[conuly]

Nothing at all. It can only be to our advantage to encourage people to speak more than one language.

[marveen.livejournal.com]

Both you and the article have your points, but your first critique is invalid--the article excerpt you quoted said "some even...". You quibbled by saying "except for", which doesn't really differ in any sense from the phrasing of the article.

I have nothing against bilingualism, I think everyone should learn at least a few scraps of another language at some point. I don't, however, think the U.S. should be "officially" bilingual, because that would lock in two languages as "official". Hell, we don't even have an "official" first language--let's keep it that way.

I'll point out that I have one LJ friend from Denmark who makes me embarrassed for the chatspeak teenyboppers by speaking (and spelling) about a dozen languages extremely well, including English.

--I'm rambling. Sorry.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

the article excerpt you quoted said "some even...". You quibbled by saying "except for", which doesn't really differ in any sense from the phrasing of the article.

Isn't the article there referring to the name change, whilst Connie is talking about the language thing?

[marveen.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'll quote the article directly:

" some even changing their names upon arriving at Ellis Island to something that sounded more "American," and insisting that their American-born children speak only English."

In the rules of English writing (hah) that I learned, the above two clauses (joined by "and") are both appended to the phrase "some even". Thus, the modifier "some" is applied to the bit about English as well.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

Point conceded. Rereading, I agree with you, and I think I did the first time. Just that middle time that I read it the other way. Strange.

[marveen.livejournal.com]

Thanks for keeping it civil.

The overall tone of the article does seem a bit sloppy, though.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

*Blinks* I wouldn't dream of anything else.

[conuly]

I didn't want to waste my time mentioning when names weren't changed voluntarily, or asking how many of those "immigrants" were really second generation. *shrugs*

[wakasplat.livejournal.com]

A friend who grew up in a Slovak-American household in a neighborhood with a fair amount of recent immigrants quite awhile ago, said that they practiced bilingual (and more) education there long before anyone had a name for it and didn't seem to make all the fuss being made these days about it.

[staircase-wit.livejournal.com]

Just wanted to say thanks.

[stejcruetekie.livejournal.com]

FWIW, I've generally been of the opinion that if you move to the US, you become american. None of this "African-American" or "Asian-American" or any of that stuff. When you move here, you're no longer in Asia. Hence, you're not Asian.

Move here, learn english, assilimate. In other words, when in Rome...

[conuly]

I'd rather learn Mohawk, thanks :)

hogwash

[scottrossi.livejournal.com]

this article is just ignorant hogwash. few facts, more racist and amerocentric views than anything.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

Out of curiosity, what's wrong with being a bilingual nation?

[georgiapeachy.livejournal.com]

It does make things diffcult, but I've also heard being bilingual stimulates your brain, so there are good and bad points...
Most of my family is bi, tri, etc. lingual and it doesn't hurt us.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

I'm currently living in a bilingual country and the biggest problem I can see is that neither of the languages are spoken by me ;0)

[conuly]

Nothing at all. It can only be to our advantage to encourage people to speak more than one language.

[marveen.livejournal.com]

Both you and the article have your points, but your first critique is invalid--the article excerpt you quoted said "some even...". You quibbled by saying "except for", which doesn't really differ in any sense from the phrasing of the article.

I have nothing against bilingualism, I think everyone should learn at least a few scraps of another language at some point. I don't, however, think the U.S. should be "officially" bilingual, because that would lock in two languages as "official". Hell, we don't even have an "official" first language--let's keep it that way.

I'll point out that I have one LJ friend from Denmark who makes me embarrassed for the chatspeak teenyboppers by speaking (and spelling) about a dozen languages extremely well, including English.

--I'm rambling. Sorry.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

the article excerpt you quoted said "some even...". You quibbled by saying "except for", which doesn't really differ in any sense from the phrasing of the article.

Isn't the article there referring to the name change, whilst Connie is talking about the language thing?

[marveen.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'll quote the article directly:

" some even changing their names upon arriving at Ellis Island to something that sounded more "American," and insisting that their American-born children speak only English."

In the rules of English writing (hah) that I learned, the above two clauses (joined by "and") are both appended to the phrase "some even". Thus, the modifier "some" is applied to the bit about English as well.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

Point conceded. Rereading, I agree with you, and I think I did the first time. Just that middle time that I read it the other way. Strange.

[marveen.livejournal.com]

Thanks for keeping it civil.

The overall tone of the article does seem a bit sloppy, though.

[eofs.livejournal.com]

*Blinks* I wouldn't dream of anything else.

[conuly]

I didn't want to waste my time mentioning when names weren't changed voluntarily, or asking how many of those "immigrants" were really second generation. *shrugs*

[wakasplat.livejournal.com]

A friend who grew up in a Slovak-American household in a neighborhood with a fair amount of recent immigrants quite awhile ago, said that they practiced bilingual (and more) education there long before anyone had a name for it and didn't seem to make all the fuss being made these days about it.

[staircase-wit.livejournal.com]

Just wanted to say thanks.