I can be pretty confrontational

[conuly]

but I don't like conflict all that much. This is a bad combination of traits, and can lead to me completely avoiding my $SITE inbox for weeks on end until I'm pretty sure everybody's forgotten what I said.

ANYway, recently I got into a petty argument with another atheist over something stupid they said (seriously) and in order to vent I went to Ana, because she was the only other human in the house. "Ugh, why are other atheists such freaking dipshits? Here's the sad truth, Ana dear, I'd like to believe that atheists are all more rational and more compassionate than theists, or at least the theists I don't like, but on the whole it just doesn't appear to be true."

So she starts talking about her intra-religious discussions with her classmate and manages to drop in that, apparently, her classmate thinks that an anti-Semite is somebody who hates religion.

Me: Wait, wait, what? No, Ana. An anti-Semite is somebody who hates or is prejudiced specifically against Jews, and not necessarily because of religion.
Ana: What!?
Me: Yeah.
Ana: I don't hate Jews!
Me: Glad to hear it.
Ana: I just don't like religion!
Me: Well, then you might call yourself an anti-theist. Or just say you're an atheist and let people work it out later.
Ana: He's been calling me anti-Semitic this whole time! Oh, man, I'm gonna punch him.
Me: Wait, is he Jewish?
Ana: NO!
Me: Well, okay then!

************

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Comments

[isis]

o.O at Ana's misunderstanding!

(I'm an atheist Jew, myself...)

[conuly]

We all have those, but this one was particularly dire.

[wpadmirer]

The speakeasy story is interesting. Especially the little tidbit about Jimi Hendrix's mom.

I have been really happy to see that the Parkland students are using their privilege to shed light on those who don't have it. They acknowledge it, and use it - and it's a beautiful thing.

[conuly]

It makes me feel almost hopeful about the future.

[lusentoj]

What?! lol
I grant that it's not exactly an elementary-school level word, but uh...

As for the athiest thing I think that's just culture in general. Like, Christians in Sweden are absolutely, completely different from Christians in America... and so are the priests and atheists. So I see it more as according to country and not actually according to religious beliefs.

[conuly]

And she's in the 9th grade, even. Well, we all have weird gaps in our knowledge.

[greghousesgf]

the speakeasy article was very cool.
I also liked the article that drew a bead on the orange asshole and the bible thumpers. "baby christian", huh? well, I agree with the baby part, he does like to scream and yell when he doesn't get what he wants.

[zesty_pinto]

The speakeasy article made me wonder if you're familiar with Scouting NY? The blog is run by a guy who scouts locations for filming and often finds some interesting locations in the process and is a little more local, hah.

I never knew this, for example, but apparently he found out that a lot of Chinatown businesses are protective about showing their phone numbers because they hide mahjong gambling parlors behind the business.

[conuly]

I've read it before, but not regularly.

[peristaltor]

Just to muddy the already filthy waters, there's a clot of idiocy out there that will accuse atheists of anti-Semitism. Why?

Well, duh, Jews are not just a religion, they are also a race (they aren't really, but some regard them as such, including many members of the not-race). That means when someone says nasty things about religion, they are also slamming the Jewish religion, which means they are bad-mouthing the Jews themselves.

I got into a tangle with a couple of such ultramaroons a few years ago on LJ. Pissed me right off.

[conuly]

Except not all atheists are against religion to begin with, so the very first premise is wrong. (The rest is wrong too, but that's what strikes me first.)

[peristaltor]

It was the AntiTheism forum they trolled and used to god-splained us.

And even then, why would someone accept such a first premise in a forum frickin' called AntiTheism?!? Like, ever?

[mindstalk]

I hear you about confrontation/conflict. Especially on politics. I'll find myself getting into an argument then running away because stress and also useless.

As for atheists:
a) people are people.

b) A typical US atheist grew up in a Christian family or culture. To come out as atheist they (i) questioned the assumptions around them and (ii) cared enough about honesty, or not enough about getting along, to speak up against the assumptions around them.

Atheism per se doesn't mean being smarter than anyone else, but being a local-minority atheist kind of entails being questioning of received truths and speaking up about doubt.

They're also likely to have a grudge about organized religion.

(Doesn't apply so much to native atheists like me. I think I am questioning and honest, but I didn't need that much to be atheist.)

So I think those traits carry over. In a different milieu, such atheists will still poke at local assumptions and speak up if those don't seem to make sense. There's a basic willingness to be intellectually confrontational, correct or not. And to not accept things on faith, or to be quiet about things just because they make people uncomofortable.

[conuly]

They're also likely to have a grudge about organized religion.

And to be fair, simply having that grudge - even if you express it by using snotty terms like "sky daddy" and "imaginary friend" in mixed company - isn't enough for me to write other atheists off entirely. I may think it's childish, but, well, going through massive life changes often involves some childish behavior, especially when you've been badly hurt.

BUT OMG SOME ATHEISTS! I don't want my fellow atheists to be jerks! I want us to be better! (At the minimum, I want the atheists who claim to be better and more rational to at least make a stab at living up to their own vaunted standards.)

[elenbarathi.livejournal.com]

I hear her. Two days ago I was labeled and anti-Semite for saying it ought to be illegal to cut pieces off the genitals of children. Note that I don't care what religion (if any) the childrens' parents are; I oppose all assaults on the inalienable right to own one's own body.

I'm not anti-religion per se. Religion can serve some very good and necessary ends. I AM opposed to cruelty, superstition and hypocrisy, with which all three branches of the Abrahamic religions are rife, though they certainly have no monopoly.

Here's an article (https://www.publicmedievalist.com/anti-semitism-before-semites/) of relevance. Alas, posting articles of relevance in an argument is an exercise in futility.