On anti-HP-hype

[conuly]

A lot of people on my friends list today have posted about how they don't want the new HP book when it comes out. Harry Potter is derivative, a rip-off. It's badly written. It's in serious need of a good editing job. It's overhyped!

Well, yeah. I know!

I have always liked literary fluff. I still have very fond memories of the Baby-Sitters Club books, and of the Sweet Valley Twins series. I will happily read cheesy sci-fi novels with plot holes big enough to drive trucks though. (I also watch Lifetime and Disney made-for-tv movies, which really should give an indication of my taste). Yes, I read and enjoy serious works as well, but I've always felt there was a little bit of fun in reading candy. Or mocking it, whatever.

Am I the only one who sees it that way? Don't take Harry Potter so seriously. Read it, laugh, and move on with your life. Or don't read it. But don't diss those of us who happen to like badly-written books and movies.

Comments

[the-turtle-girl.livejournal.com]

FLUFF RULEZ!!!!

I loved all those books as a kid. I really regret letting my mother get rid of all my Babysitters Club books. I had ALL of them. *sigh*

[conuly]

ALL of them? *is awed*

[the-turtle-girl.livejournal.com]

I think I missed like the last two (cuz I was all growed up lol) but, yep, all of them up til then.

[rpeate.livejournal.com]

I'm not even a Harry Potter fan, but even I can see that the Harry Potter books are very well written, and I feel this should be apparent to anyone upon opening any of the books to any page. Also, "derivative" of what? I don't remember seeing a Harry Potter boy-wizard character previous. I also don't think the books are in need of any editing beyond what they already receive. Sigh. From whence these comments?

[furiosity.livejournal.com]

I think a lot of the anti-HP hype stems from the whole "That J.K. Rowling is a lucky bitch, I wish I was her" syndrome rather than real faults with the books themselves. Not to say the series is flawless or all faults are imagined, but I can tell "you're just jealous" when I see it. A lot of wannabe writers have made noise about JKR as a talentless hack, but they remain wannabes, and she's the one with the 7-book deal. That kind of thing stings, if someone is immature like that.

Derivative? What isn't, these days?
A rip-off? Please. Just because JKR re-uses archetypes that everyone and their dog does, just because she's writing about childhood and school life does not make her works a rip-off. See "derivative".
Badly written? If you consider "good writing" on the merits of usage of the English language alone, perhaps. If someone considers "good writing" also good storytelling and can with a clear conscience say that JKR's writing is bad on the merits of storytelling, then I point and laugh in their direction while singing "You're just jealous."
In a serious need of an editing job -- why? Because some people didn't get the Ministry of Magic scene in OotP? No one ever said you didn't have to use your brain while reading Book 5, dammit. Granted, with some extra editing, the series can be improved, but what can't?
Over-hyped? I think that's the "You're just jealous" crowd's substitute for "popular," at least in this case. The series is popular because people are reading the books, writing stories set in the world, and trying to figure out what's going to happen next while anxiously anticipating film and book releases. That's because people love these books, not because the media tells them they're cool.

Any "you"s in the above refer to the hypothetical "you, gentle reader" rather than you personally, Conuly. :o) People take it so damn seriously because deep inside, many can't stand the thought that a single mother on welfare could pull off something like this, it leads to "Why her, why not me?" And I think that's pretty damn rotten of them. That said, I don't think every single person who doesn't like the series dislikes it for that reason. I think there are a heck of a lot more people who feel that way than there are people who'll admit they do.

[conuly]

I disagree. I don't think they're well-written at all.

Many of the characters are two-dimensional. There's glimpses that they could be more, but she never follows through with this.

The same adjectives are used over and over again. Try counting how often Hermione says something "waspishly". She never says something causticly, or cruelly, or snidely, or sardonically, it's always "waspishly". She doesn't even just *say* something. Why do we need to be told that an insult was said in an insulting fashion?

As for editing, I disagree again with you. There is no need for the books to be as long as they are. There's no need for JKR to put in loads of backstory in every book, the people reading the fifth book have read the first five. 100 pages could've been cut off of the last book if she'd just cut out the details that add nothing to the story.

And editing doesn't just mean "cutting out parts". It also means "making sure there aren't serious errors". She's had full moons when full moons are impossible, she's had characters repeat a year (something I'm assured is nearly impossible in the British system, especially if the year they repeat is their last year in school), she's made mistakes through the books. And that's fine, it happens - but a good editor should catch the more obvious ones.

Derivative? Well, aside from the infamous "Larry Potter" incident when they first became famous, there's the Worst Witch series to contend with. She's not on the grounds of copyright infringement, not by far, and I certainly agree that there's only so many ideas going around the world at any one time, but she's not the unique ideas person she's made out to be.

[conuly]

JKR isn't a *bad* storyteller, exactly - she's just not a *great* one. And she really doesn't know how to cut out the dreck from her books. I'll say it again, and shout it from the rooftops, there's no need for them to be that long. (She's not the only one with that problem, that's the main reason I've never gotten into LotR as well. I can't deal with the description).

[conuly]

I don't mean that they're exceptionally badly written (god, I've seen too much to believe that) or that they're careless. I just mean... they're not that great. People get this idea that JKR is a wonderful writer. Well, she's not terrible, and she writes better than many (not that this is hard, mind, but she does) but she's not the world's best writer, she's not a wonderful writer.

[furiosity.livejournal.com]

Actually, I agree that the books need not be as long as they are. But that, I think, is a matter of personal preference -- some people can read the Fountainhead and think it's brilliant, I think it's boring and uninspired. And I love the descriptions in the LotR series, I don't think it would be anywhere without them. Bottom line is -- JKR isn't everyone's cup of tea, and that's fine, far be it from me to try to convince people to like something that they can't enjoy. However, it's kind of like debating the merits of mash over French fries.

[conuly]

*grins*

Good answer.

[rpeate.livejournal.com]

My wife is a fan who has read all the books. I'll ask her opinion of your criticisms and get back to you. In the mean time, happy holidays!

[ladyshrew.livejournal.com]

I personally can't stand the HP hype, but I don't look down on those who enjoy the books. And I completely understand where you're coming from, because I totally admit to buying music for those reasons. :-P

[xmorningxrosex.livejournal.com]

Yup, another Baby-Sitters Club books reader here! Although, I always skipped the second chapter where they reintroduced all of the gang. Boxcar Children, that's another impossible series, yet was still a lot of fun for 6- and 7-year old me. :)

I like the Harry Potter series as well. I think the first couple were the last books my sisters (at age 20!) actually read, and hey, if it gets them to read, it's gotta be a good thing. :P

[toastedtuna.livejournal.com]

Why, oh why, does everything have to boil down to some group or another being "jealous" of someone else? Why can't someone be pissed off at a writer for not delivering something of quality?

I CARE about what happens to Harry and those kids. Yes, JK's writing bugs the living hell out of me because she sucks major ass. Unfortunately, she's managed to reel me in with a group of kids who stand up for themselves and always manage to come out on top, and I want to know what happens next.

I don't think it's wrong to demand that a writer give a reader something of quality and continuity.

I've quit watching many shows over the years because of the very reasons I can't stand JK Rowling.

Jealousy isn't even a factor, and I don't think it's a factor for others who find issues with her 'technique' either.

[furiosity.livejournal.com]

I quote: That said, I don't think every single person who doesn't like the series dislikes it for that reason. [being jealous] So no, it doesn't have to boil down to jealousy -- I just think a lot of people are jealous of her success.

JKR can't be all that bad if her characters are so vivid in your mind, can she? *shrug* I don't agree with you that she sucks major ass, I think you're quite wrong on that count, but like I mentioned to conuly above, it's a little like debating whether mash is better than French fries.

JKR's created a world that people can lose themselves in, and characters that people truly care about. There have got to be redeeming characteristics in there somewhere, ne?

[conuly]

Well, I've got a theory about JKR's vivid characters.

When she first wrote the HP books, she was a nobody. She had to fit the confining rules of children's fiction, which means that excess words and sentences were struck down mercilessly. Sometimes this is cruel - the editor wantonly takes out things that belong. But often it has merit, and things which are unnecessary are removed.

Now she's popular. Everybody loves her. She can do what she wants. And that means she writes her books longer and longer, and doesn't take out all the stuff that can not exist, that adds nothing to the story.

In the end, the writing suffers because it's full of dreck. It has good stuff too, but she's not editing out the bloat anymore, and the stories are slower, and slower, and have too much in them.

[conuly]

Oh, the Boxcar children. That was good while the creator was alive, but then... their ages would change, and their ages relative to one another. It was horrible.

[furiosity.livejournal.com]

That's a pretty good theory, actually -- I agree with it to an extent. It makes sense, about her becoming popular and having more leeway as far as editing goes -- her publishers know that the book will sell no matter what she does, after all. Rumour has it that Half-Blood Prince is shorter than the Order of the Phoenix, so we can hope. :>

[semirose.livejournal.com]

Whoo hoo, Baby Sitters Club, Sweet Valley Twins, Boxcar Children! How about Animorphs people? I loved all of those, ahh good times. I wonder if I stil have some of those books lying around somewhere, they couldn't have all been sold in the garage sales.

[semirose.livejournal.com]

Personaly, I love the Harry Potter world, and I think JK did a good job with that, but I know I have read fics that have better plots and better characterizations than the books ever will have. But of course these are fics, and so not much other that a lot of online fame will come from them. I can't wait to read the next book to see what will be added to the world of canon, but I'm secure in the knowledge that if I don't like it I can just sink back into the fandom and read fics that will use the characters that I love in a way that I like.

I read a post last month on idlerat's journal that was rather amusing. It's basically comparing different well known fanfiction writers writing styles to chacters from the books, and here is the last comment.

Crude, obvious, over-the-top, childish; not-very-cunning plots. Can be relied on to periodically mess up everyone else's story.
Voldemort = Joanne K. Rowling

[conuly]

Don't delete! You got it this time!

[adiva_calandia]

Icon LUUURVE! I have a plushie Cthulhu too, but he's (it's?) not festive. :D So cool.

[adiva_calandia]

Oh my God, I used to have every single Animorphs book published (Actually, I may have been missing some of the Megamorphs). Going to the bookstore to pick up the new installment was the high point of my month. I was utterly obsessed. I still like the concept of the Animorphs morphing into giant squid. ^_^

[innerbrat]

Y'know what? I can't stand the hype surrounding the Harry Potter series, and I'm a fan.

I'm not going to enter into a literary debate: I'm a scientist, not a literary critic, and when I like a series, I can't say for certain what I do and don't like about it.

But I'm prepared to agree with you on Fluff: Hells, I love Buffy, and that's much fluffier. A lot on the characters are two dimensional, but a good many (mostly the adults) are interesting and are revealing themselves to be much better developed than I gave them credit for.
Snape, for instance: the cliche would have him reveal himself to be good and noble after all, but he's still a petty, spiteful little man who's spent much too long in a teaching institution. There's reasons behind his behaviour.

Incidentally, I hate the LotR books. I've read them recently and I never intend to read them again. Them, I consider to be badly written, although I like the stories and I appreciate the pioneering aspect of them.
Originality does not a good story make.

[feathered.livejournal.com]

I agree on all counts. I like the HP books, I'm terribly fond of them because I met three of my favourite people through the old amazon harry potter forum, and I buy and read each new book the day it comes out. And I hate the hype. I'd complain about it in my own journal if I weren't so lazy.

I guess, like Uly said, the problem is everyone takes them so seriously. They are either GREAT books or BLOODY HORRIBLE books, but never just books.

(I don't like the LoTR books either, innerbrat. It's a closely-held secret of mine.. It's dangerous to say in public! I respect them, but I sure as hell wouldn't read them for fun.)